So.. who exactly isn't/wasnt fighting cans...?(Level of dominance-MANDETORY THREAD)

Groundless claim regarding the women, reread teh OP or atleast my last post if you have a TLDR attention span.
I'm sure they half those girls would paint your face like a plum Ala- Cain/JDS.

Yeah they would. So what? Doesn't make what I said any less true.

The women Ronda are fighting are hardly better than the people Kimbo Slice picked up off the street and brawled with. UFC - 1 caliber fighters.
 
Conor mcgregor. so far all his opponents have been top 10.
 
If you take Ronda out of the equation you have a very competitive division with Tate, Zingano, Holms, McMann etc...

Did you see the fight with Tate vs Zingano?!! That was a great fight with a great finish, great entertainment. People would be applauding theses girls more of Ronda wasn't as good as she was.

Ronda is just a once in a generation talent. Look at Michael Jordan, dude won 6 NBA Championships with his Bulls Teams having records of 72-10 and 69-13. Does that mean the Charles Barkley's, Reggie Millers, Patrick Ewings, Karl Malones, Clyde Drexlers of the world sucked?!

No it means Jordan was just a level above everyone. Ronda is the Michael Jordan of WMMA
 
Opologies. mendetory. Documentry. penelized. advertisment. coinsedence. protaginist. buisness.

You're a troll.
 
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People like Ronda or Tyson were alot more dominant thatn Hughes.
Although hats of to Matt and his beautiful streak of finishes, truely an all time great. But we all knew about the stan up problem he admitted to have.
And Dennis Hallman has submitted him twice, pretty easily, one of them being in his own game.
Hughes never had the aura that I imply in the OP... So no.

Alot. Truely.

Call the police this guy dropped out of elementary school no doubt.
 
If you take Ronda out of the equation you have a very competitive division with Tate, Zingano, Holms, McMann etc...

Did you see the fight with Tate vs Zingano?!! That was a great fight with a great finish, great entertainment. People would be applauding theses girls more of Ronda wasn't as good as she was.

Ronda is just a once in a generation talent. Look at Michael Jordan, dude won 6 NBA Championships with his Bulls Teams having records of 72-10 and 69-13. Does that mean the Charles Barkley's, Reggie Millers, Patrick Ewings, Karl Malones, Clyde Drexlers of the world sucked?!

No it means Jordan was just a level above everyone. Ronda is the Michael Jordan of WMMA

Finally someone with a brain who gets it!
You all should learn from this man.

Yeah they would. So what? Doesn't make what I said any less true.

The women Ronda are fighting are hardly better than the people Kimbo Slice picked up off the street and brawled with. UFC - 1 caliber fighters.

Enlighten me on the amount of BJJ black belts, undefeated and experienced MMA fighters, and Olympic medalist in wresling, and fihgters that come from big respected MMA camps, that kimbo picked up off the street, I guess I skipped those...

Alot. Truely.

Call the police. this guy dropped out of elementary school,no doubt. with out a doubt
Fixed.
Worst grammar nazi, ever.
 
This thread way will take way more of an open mind than sherdog usually gives.
And obviously, to my opologies another Ronda inspired one.

Btw, the thread title is a rhetorical question.

While viewing a documentry on my fav boxer Roy Jones Jr. The well respected historian Bert Sugar gave a long rant that any hardcore fan cant possibly disagree, and excuse me for not remembering his exact words cause this was long ago. He said that if u dont get an "arch rival", a sort of Frazier if u will, u get "penelized".

By which I mean I mean its usually one or two guy for the "lead protaginist" that solidifies his place there. THE REST ARE ALWAYS STUMPLEBUMS!
Same with Ali; Jon Jone's frazier is Gus, and his BIG Goerge Foreman is Daniel Cormier. Otherwise, the majority will spew of him walking through out-of-primers and cans. Merely because of the level of dominance that he has constantly presented us.

Now it's no coinsedence that I mentioned Roy Jones Jr, as before in his prime he did the ultimate feat u can have in boxing in any perspective, The Lineal HW crown. why? because there is no where to go from there on out. Same reason Jon called out the undefeated HW, when all this super fight talk started. Quite a smart scheme, I tip my hat to u Mr. Jackson, you're not just a sensei but a buisnessman as well.

The Paciaou/Mayweather formula, or Hagler/Leonard formula, call it whatever u want. that's exactly what's being done with Cyborg. A topic any casual with access to the web can argue, a constant form of advertisment the fans do on their own and spreading. And with who? a large featherweight. Doesnt matter how many undefeated title contenders, BJJ blackbelts, olympic wreslers she beats. Maybe Dana wont make this fihgt, or maybe he's waiting to strike when the iron is hot, buisness-wise, but no, it's all relatively meaningless untell the star is humbled human(Ali lost to Frazier, and went to hellish war in the rubber match with the famous name, Thrilla In Manilla.
Same as the many threads about Tyson, why even last week some shumck made a thread in the boxing section "was he even that good?".

Would it be better to have belts play hot potato like the LHW title a few years back with Sugan, Rashad, Rampage, Machida? Not random that only those "fabulous four" were available in almost all free downloadable demos of UFC games at the time.

I can go on forever about this, but those are my 2 cents, and I wanna hear actual opinions/interpretations of this phenomenon.

PS: Excuse my English. And tried to sound unbias.

Ok I think I get your point, this formula can be applied to most sports where you have one two some times three "dominant superstars" which make the whole sport tick. Eg, Tennis, Federer/Nadal/Djok - Soccer Ronaldo/Messi - Boxing Mayweather/Pacman, F1 Racing Hamilton/Vettel I could go on and on and back through the history of most sports to make my point.
It seems like things can go either way for a person/team when this happens, either someone like Tiger, when he was in his prime was just so good he was blowing top top players away. Nothing to do with poor competition just to do with him being that good. So people turned up to watch Tiger play and think we are really seeing something special here....or the opposite can happen. A person/team can be so good that its boring and the people will say..ah he /she isn't as good as so and so and the sports becomes dull an predictable.
Currently the UFC machine (IMO) put RR up on a pedestal. In full fairness to RR she is a great athlete however, IMO she is very very good fighter with the combination of the rest of the women's 135 division being above average. If RR wasn't there there would be no 135 division, would there even be women in UFC? She is needed, like it or not, or we might see some kind of hot potato belt swapping like you said about the LHW's
The Cyborg equation comes into play like a carrot being dangled in front of us..RR blows away another plucky opponent in 38 seconds...world say wow she is like Tyson (no shes not) people go crazy for her...The vision of her fighting Tate for the third time is completely pointless. Tate has been smashed twice before, nothing is pointing to any difference in the 3rd fight. Cyborg is like some loch ness creature, a myth that this person will one day come and smash RR..the casual fan who tweets about RR being the most dominant athlete ever, prolly doesn't even know who Cris Cyborg is..outside the UFC etc...for me Cyborg exists only in the world of Sherdog and hard core MMA fans. Casual observers will see a women ending a fight in 38 seconds and think she is the GOAT..I don't think we can apply the Haggler/Hearns , Mayweather/Pacman, Holyfield/Bowe, Sampras/Aggassi, Bulls/Pistons, etc....principle to this situation.
 
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Finally someone with a brain who gets it!
You all should learn from this man.



Enlighten me on the amount of BJJ black belts, undefeated and experienced MMA fighters, and Olympic medalist in wresling, and fihgters that come from big respected MMA camps, that kimbo picked up off the street, I guess I skipped those....

I was using quite a lot of hyperbole, but if you watch those women fight, they look very sloppy and weak.

Ronda is the only one who doesn't look out of place in these fights.
 
Jessica Aguilar was fighting cans in WSOF

We saw what happened when she had to face someone good on Saturday
 
casual fan who tweets about RR being the most dominant athlete ever, prolly doesn't even know who Cris Cyborg is..outside the UFC etc...for me Cyborg exists only in the world of Sherdog and hard core MMA fans. Casual observers will see a women ending a fight in 38 seconds and think she is the GOAT..I don't think we can apply the Haggler/Hearns , Mayweather/Pacman, Holyfield/Bowe, Sampras/Aggassi, Bulls/Pistons, etc....principle to this situation.

I thought so at first, but it's a wrok in progress and it spreads like a virus, cause almost on every facebook post, youtube video, ..etc that feature ronda the top comments end up being something about cyborg ducking, and it keeps getting more exposure. I'm not a sociologist or a journalist, but this is a a very fascinating .. whatever it is.
Well, from my personal experience, I live in israel, a contry where combat sports are almost non existant, and while me and my best friend were watching the Manny Paciou fight after a lecture, suddenly an acquaintance says from behind me "so who won, the philipino or the american". I was shocked and replied "how do u even know what this is?", and he's like "idk, it keeps popping up everywhere I go, and people talk about it, I'm not into wresling usually". Whatever they did was a genius marketting scheme.
 
Then I'm afraid you're missing something.
Then u must have read the part where I said " a large featherweight. Doesnt matter how many undefeated title contenders, BJJ blackbelts, olympic wreslers she beats."
And she actaully has beaten such sighters... U just choose to categorise them as cans for reasons I've elaborated already.
I'll simplify this repeating something else in the OP, look at the only person that the haters are looking for her to go to, the woman above her weight class that can barely make her own weight, and is barely close to being as consistantly domanant as her.
Also, ofcourse the dynamic of the belt does hold a big deal in that department due to impliciting competitiveness, and I can't see why u couldnt grasp that.
If Ronda wasn't a star celebrity she would have retired like Rocky Marciano, known only by hardcores.
I'm not adding anymore, I'd be just repeating myself as I still am. Verdict: We can agree to disagree.

Edit: the way long time great female boxer and by now enffeciently experinced MMA fighter Holly Holme's and the way she's doing at the bottom of the barrel (even in stand up) of the devision should even give u a bigger picture, of how much you're wrong about how muhc you throw the word "can" around...

I categorized them as cans because watching them fight it's clear that they aren't technically sound fighters.

Jack Slack wrote an article on this before the Bethe fight.

As for undefeated WMMA fighters - means nothing at this stage. Cans beating cans doesn't make them non-cans. A BJJ black belt don't make you a good MMA fighter. That's been proven over and over again in the men's divisions. The same with being an Olympic wrestler. We've seen all these types enter men's MMA and leave promptly because they weren't good MMA fighters.

That you can't accept that doesn't change it's validity. You're telling me that women are good fighters because of accomplishments that have nothing to do with actual MMA skill. Nothing about footwork, defensive skill sets, takedown defense, fight IQ, etc.

For a technical point:
Jack Slack writes:

What I will say about the ladies is that overwhelmingly you will see them bend forward at the waist and separate their hips and legs from their shoulders.

Imagine a rotating coke can as your torso. The top and bottom are moving in conjunction. Put a big dent in the middle and the top isn't rotating on the same plane as the bottom anymore. Where your shoulders were rotating in line with your hips before, they're now rotating back and forth towards the floor.



Notice how Correira's stance squares up, and her shoulders are often quite far forward of her hips.

The mechanics are different on each punch so definitely read Dempsey's book. But another point is that Correira's shoulders stop rotating considerable before her hooks land. I have always subscribed to the shoulder going through and the fist following it. Its the difference between slapping something and smashing through something.

If we compare it to Hisae Watanabe. It's legs, hips, shoulders, then the fist connects. The fist is dragged and then thrown through. You can see how much weight she's committing to it on the second one. She does swing wide, so it isn't perfect, but if we're talking power, defence isn't really the concern.

8b645fde7074ef91034e76f305a2c5c0.gif


From:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/2pmsxh/question_for_striking_analysts_jack_connor/cmyiwxp


Or a more in depth piece: http://fightland.vice.com/blog/killing-the-queen-ronda-rousey
 
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