So.. who exactly isn't/wasnt fighting cans...?(Level of dominance-MANDETORY THREAD)

[KillerIsBack V2]

This thread way will take way more of an open mind than sherdog usually gives.
And obviously, to my opologies another Ronda inspired one.

Btw, the thread title is a rhetorical question.

While viewing a documentry on my fav boxer Roy Jones Jr. The well respected historian Bert Sugar gave a long rant that any hardcore fan cant possibly disagree, and excuse me for not remembering his exact words cause this was long ago. He said that if u dont get an "arch rival", a sort of Frazier if u will, u get "penelized".

By which I mean I mean its usually one or two guy for the "lead protaginist" that solidifies his place there. THE REST ARE ALWAYS STUMPLEBUMS!
Same with Ali; Jon Jone's frazier is Gus, and his BIG Goerge Foreman is Daniel Cormier. Otherwise, the majority will spew of him walking through out-of-primers and cans. Merely because of the level of dominance that he has constantly presented us.

Now it's no coinsedence that I mentioned Roy Jones Jr, as before in his prime he did the ultimate feat u can have in boxing in any perspective, The Lineal HW crown. why? because there is no where to go from there on out. Same reason Jon called out the undefeated HW, when all this super fight talk started. Quite a smart scheme, I tip my hat to u Mr. Jackson, you're not just a sensei but a buisnessman as well.

The Paciaou/Mayweather formula, or Hagler/Leonard formula, call it whatever u want. that's exactly what's being done with Cyborg. A topic any casual with access to the web can argue, a constant form of advertisment the fans do on their own and spreading. And with who? a large featherweight. Doesnt matter how many undefeated title contenders, BJJ blackbelts, olympic wreslers she beats. Maybe Dana wont make this fihgt, or maybe he's waiting to strike when the iron is hot, buisness-wise, but no, it's all relatively meaningless untell the star is humbled human(Ali lost to Frazier, and went to hellish war in the rubber match with the famous name, Thrilla In Manilla.
Same as the many threads about Tyson, why even last week some shumck made a thread in the boxing section "was he even that good?".

Would it be better to have belts play hot potato like the LHW title a few years back with Sugan, Rashad, Rampage, Machida? Not random that only those "fabulous four" were available in almost all free downloadable demos of UFC games at the time.

I can go on forever about this, but those are my 2 cents, and I wanna hear actual opinions/interpretations of this phenomenon.

PS: Excuse my English. And tried to sound unbias.

 

[BASSER911414]

If you want to talk about Ronda, then the reason people say she fights cans is that the level of ability between her and the rest is so different that they dont even compare.

As for guys like Jones. Jones is heads above the rest but the gap in ability isnt as farfetched as it is for Ronda and the rest.

 

[MotorcycleMir]

Sees massive spelling mistake in title... avoids reading thread

 

[jonathan274]

Gsp = goat even if a lot of it was kind of boring

also lol @ massive.

#tldr

 

[Sole]

Weidman.

 

[Word]

I think this is one of those "the grass is always greener on the other side" type questions. Do we want a dominant champion who doesn't have a scintillating performance every time (GSP) or do we want the hot potato division you spoke of (Randy -> Vitor -> Randy -> Chuck -> Rampage -> Griffin [if you can believe it...] -> Rashad -> Lyoto - Shogun -> Jones)?

I say from Zuffa's POV, they want the dominant champion. The "star power" of whoever wins the belt increases a bit, and it continues to cumulatively increase every time they defend the belt. It seems to me like that would make Zuffa's job easier.

I'd like this question to be directed to Scott Coker (he probably wont just call whoever asks it a dummy).

 

[countswagula]

Heldy Sugan is the LHW GOAD

 

[Count Zero]

mandetory

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Sees massive spelling mistake in title... avoids reading thread

U might have OCD. But don't worry, take this

Spoiler

*watches your world burn*

Btw, you missed your period at the end of that sentence, but dont worry they have a pill for that too.. unless you're pro life

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

mandetory

Read post above^

 

[fearoth]

Matt Hughes

 

[panamaican]

There's a difference between not having a great rival and fighting cans.

Plenty of great athletes never find a rival, which is fine because their greatness is what sets them apart in the first place.

It's different when the opposition itself is under-skilled. People say Floyd Mayweather doesn't fight the hardest challengers available but there's no evidence that the people he's fighting aren't very good at boxing itself. They're very good boxers, even if they aren't toughest available choices.

There's some question as to if the women in WMMA (outside of Ronda, who is clearly a top level talent, and a few others) are good fighters/athletes to begin with.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Matt Hughes

People like Ronda or Tyson were alot more dominant thatn Hughes.
Although hats of to Matt and his beautiful streak of finishes, truely an all time great. But we all knew about the stan up problem he admitted to have.
And Dennis Hallman has submitted him twice, pretty easily, one of them being in his own game.
Hughes never had the aura that I imply in the OP... So no.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

There's a difference between not having a great rival and fighting cans.

Plenty of great athletes never find a rival, which is fine because their greatness is what sets them apart in the first place.

It's different when the opposition itself is under-skilled. People say Floyd Mayweather doesn't fight the hardest challengers available but there's no evidence that the people he's fighting aren't very good at boxing itself. They're very good boxers, even if they aren't toughest available choices.

There's some question as to if the women in WMMA (outside of Ronda, who is clearly a top level talent, and a few others) are good fighters/athletes to begin with.

I dont think u really grasped what I'm saying in the OP. read the parts I talked about Ronda(if u did, do it again) and the people she has faced.
Oh and btw, Floyd is just old now, He has beated people on the top 10 p4p list and lineals champs since forever(Cotto, Hatton, Hoya, Juda, Mosely, ...etc). he's just old now. He's beaten JMM, pacman's arch rival, alot more convincingly than Pac ever could, and that was right before pacman was koed by him. Also, saying that Floyd waited for pac to deteriorate does not refute the fact that he's May is older by 2 years.

 

[panamaican]

I dont think u really grasped what I'm saying in the OP. read the parts I talked about Ronda(if u did, do it again) and the people she has faced.
Oh and btw, Floyd is just old now, He has beated people on the top 10 p4p list and lineals champs since forever(Cotto, Hatton, Hoya, Juda, Mosely, ...etc). he's just old now. He's beaten JMM, pacman's arch rival, alot more convincingly than Pac ever could, and that was right before pacman was koed by him. Also, saying that Floyd waited for pac to deteriorate does not refute the fact that he's May is older by 2 years.

I read it, I even politely read it a 2nd time. Nothing in my post has changed.

There's a difference between being penalized for not having a great rival and actually fighting cans. The whole question of a rotating belt vs. a static one doesn't change that.

 

[jonathan274]

Matt Hughes

Pure dominance, this 100%

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

I read it, I even politely read it a 2nd time. Nothing in my post has changed.

There's a difference between being penalized for not having a great rival and actually fighting cans. The whole question of a rotating belt vs. a static one doesn't change that.

Then I'm afraid you're missing something.
Then u must have read the part where I said " a large featherweight. Doesnt matter how many undefeated title contenders, BJJ blackbelts, olympic wreslers she beats."
And she actaully has beaten such sighters... U just choose to categorise them as cans for reasons I've elaborated already.
I'll simplify this repeating something else in the OP, look at the only person that the haters are looking for her to go to, the woman above her weight class that can barely make her own weight, and is barely close to being as consistantly domanant as her.
Also, ofcourse the dynamic of the belt does hold a big deal in that department due to impliciting competitiveness, and I can't see why u couldnt grasp that.
If Ronda wasn't a star celebrity she would have retired like Rocky Marciano, known only by hardcores.
I'm not adding anymore, I'd be just repeating myself as I still am. Verdict: We can agree to disagree.

Edit: the way long time great female boxer and by now enffeciently experinced MMA fighter Holly Holme's and the way she's doing at the bottom of the barrel (even in stand up) of the devision should even give u a bigger picture, of how much you're wrong about how muhc you throw the word "can" around...

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Lol, wtf.

Hughes definitely fought some cans in his day. He fought a 40 year old Royce Gracie ffs.

GSP fought absolutely no cans. All top 5 fighters at the time he fought them, including Dan Hardy.

Ronda is fighting women who barely belong in MMA or sports in general.

 

[BOTTICELLI]

Mandatory

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Lol, wtf.

Hughes definitely fought some cans in his day. He fought a 40 year old Royce Gracie ffs.

GSP fought absolutely no cans. All top 5 fighters at the time he fought them, including Dan Hardy.

Ronda is fighting women who barely belong in MMA or sports in general.

Groundless claim regarding the women, reread teh OP or atleast my last post if you have a TLDR attention span.
I'm sure they half those girls would paint your face like a plum Ala- Cain/JDS.