So where does one go to learn stand up?

Judo has diluted itself so much with all these rule changes that proficiency in judo may not even translate too well in BJJ or even street fighting. Where does one go to learn gi-centric throws and take downs? Are people not going to start private clubs where guys could get together and train without the intent of placing high in judo?

 

'wrasslin

 

Uh... Not every school cares about competition. Even those schools that do care about competition should still have teachers who know all the throws and can teach you them if you want to learn them. You just don't use them in comp.

I'm not sure what your concern is.

 

There is no wrestling that happens with the gi on unfortunately.

 

Sambo.

 

You could come to my class. I've wrestled a bit and have a black belt in Judo, and my standup classes are about 50/50 wrestling vs. Judo all with the gi on. If I had to choose one, I'd probably choose wrestling for BJJ over Judo just because wrestling and BJJ share the philosophy of establishing control on the ground as being the core guiding principle of standup grappling (not true of Judo).

 

Call Wiz Cool C and have him teach you Mongolian wrestling

 

I have to disagree with you here, one of the Nippon criteria is control and good judo is so often found in the transition. This cannot be said of bjj, very rarely is a sub caught directly from a takedown in bjj?? Or at least not nearly as often as judo. Also like wrestling the pin is in judo so good judo = good pinning or control.

Not saying the other two don't have it but judo certainly does

 

Judo is plenty fine for the street and is one of the fastest most aggressive grappling styles out there. Go train it if you haven't already. Train hard and it will improve your overall grappling immensely.

Judo is awesome

 

The majority of Judo highlights I watch have people rolling over their opponent after a throw yet still scoring points...

 

Sadly, you're totally wrong about the meaning of control in Judo (and I think you're looking for 'ippon' criteria, not 'Nippon' which just means 'Japan'). Control for the purposes of scoring is about control throughout the throw, not control once you hit the ground. That's why the most common scoring throws (uchi mata and seio nage) are almost always hit with a roll through in competition. Because if you land the guy flat on his back, it doesn't matter if he then rolls you through. And that's the problem, and a big part of why competition Judo is largely inapplicable for BJJ standup. I'm not sure what catching subs off TDs has to do with anything, but because the fight is not ended by a big throw in either BJJ or wrestling the emphasis on post-TD control is much greater making the cross over between the two styles much larger. What Judo gives you, other than nice foot sweeps and sacrifice throws (which I do teach to my BJJ students) is good skill with gripping, which should not be underestimated in importance for BJJ.

 

Any of those people in that video can thrown a thug without having to roll thru the throw. Come on man.

 

Definitely, but can they throw another grappler in BJJ competition without giving up their back or landing on bottom post roll through? Maybe Olympians can, but I doubt the average Judo BB can.

 

Well at my low level I have find that de ashi harais works pretty well against those agressive over crouched BJJ guys.

 

You don't think that the average judo black belt could enter a local BJJ competition and throw an average BJJ player without giving up his back or landing on bottom post roll through?

I'm not entirely sure how useful judo once a week is for the BJJ hobbyist/recreational competito, but I'm pretty sure that our judo club has a couple of dozen guys who could enter a BJJ competition at the blue belt level and throw their opponent without giving up their back or rolling through.

 

Look, even with those stupid rules I hate but lovve the art so much I can tell you that for the street and BJJ there are useful moves but usually are not the most flashy ones, Fedor did a lot of Judo sasaes in MMA but once he tried an Uchimata he gave up on position.

 

For sure he could. I just don't think modern Judo drop seio nage or uchi mata would be the way to do it. I teach various foot sweeps, ouchi and kouchi gari, and heavily modified versions of seio nage and uchi mata during my BJJ standup classes, they work well but you have to work on changing the throwing action to avoid the roll through or giving up your back. One thing to keep in mind is that throws in Judo often fail several times before they succeed, and against defensive stanced BJJ guys those throws are even less likely to work the first time and one screw up can get your back taken. No ref is going to call matte and stand you up if you try a forward throw and don't complete it.

My best throw in Judo was uchi mata, though I hit a lot of foot sweeps as well. But I rarely throw uchi mata in BJJ because the risk/reward tradeoff isn't favorable. In BJJ I typically limit my standup to ankle picks, singles and doubles, tomoe nage, foot sweeps, and sumi gaeshi off a Russian 2-1 grip. That's plenty enough to take down pretty much any BJJ guy and none of those takedowns carry high risk of giving up major position (ending up in guard after a failed tomoe nage is perfectly fine a BJJ context).

 

Boom.

My club is a hobbyist/competiton club that regularly teaches the pickup versions of throws and goes over any throw, regardless of whether or not it would be legal in competition.

My sensei also doesn't bat an eyelash if I go for a sukui nage during randori.

It just depends on where you train.