So Ontario’s free tuition plan lasted less than 3 years

[rearnakedchoke]

It’s a good plan if you can make an agreement that the student works in the province for at least five years after graduating. High tides raises all the boats.

 

[surrealworlds]

The only comprehension problem is yours. You keep repeating the same things and not comprehending what we have told you multiple times. Let's try this again. When I signed up for the military part of my contract was the G.I. Bill. That was in my INITIAL CONTRACT for service to the military. The conditions for receiving the G.I. Bill included fulfilling that contract. I EARNED my G.I. Bill by fulfilling my contract.
Get it?
Your statement about past veterans makes zero sense. The G.I. Bill did not exist at that time so they could not earn something that did not exist. And if you are trying to say they paid with combat but did not get the G.I. Bill(which did not exist) all that means is they earned it but did not receive it.

As for people that receive a free education not appreciating it. I do not agree that would be the case 100% of the time but I do understand(comprehend) what was being stated which is that something "free" will not be appreciated as much as something earned in most cases. If you want to argue that point go for it but drop the bullshit about veterans. I earned everything I have and you talking in circles just takes away from any point you are trying to make. Try a different analogy for fucks sake.

You are too emotional, calm down.

You have a comprehension problem, which prevents you from understanding that @Beaver Brownlee's implication that recipients of the G.I. Bill had to provide something in return, namely service, means they didn't get the benefits of the G.I. Bill for free, BUT since the G.I. Bill wasn't given to veterans pre WW2, obviously service to the country did not pay for the G.I. Bill. When these pre WW2 veterans joined up, they knew what was promised to them in return, and the benefits afforded in the G.I. Bill was not promised to them. So it is not a case of the government withholding something they earned.

It is also pretty god dam stupid to say college graduates who didn't have to pay for their education did not earn it or do not appreciate the degree. Does this mean all the wealthy kids out there whose parents bankrolled their college degrees do not appreciate their degrees?

 

[MicroBrew]

The only comprehension problem is yours. You keep repeating the same things and not comprehending what we have told you multiple times. Let's try this again. When I signed up for the military part of my contract was the G.I. Bill. That was in my INITIAL CONTRACT for service to the military. The conditions for receiving the G.I. Bill included fulfilling that contract. I EARNED my G.I. Bill by fulfilling my contract.
Get it?
Your statement about past veterans makes zero sense. The G.I. Bill did not exist at that time so they could not earn something that did not exist. And if you are trying to say they paid with combat but did not get the G.I. Bill(which did not exist) all that means is they earned it but did not receive it.

As for people that receive a free education not appreciating it. I do not agree that would be the case 100% of the time but I do understand(comprehend) what was being stated which is that something "free" will not be appreciated as much as something earned in most cases. If you want to argue that point go for it but drop the bullshit about veterans. I earned everything I have and you talking in circles just takes away from any point you are trying to make. Try a different analogy for fucks sake.

You fail to understand that the conversation I entered into was about WW2 veterans , it wasn't about current veterans who signed up believing their service entitles them to the benefits afforded in the GI Bill. The argument from @JDragon was about ww2 vets getting free education. @Beaver Brownlee said it was not free because their service earned it. To which I retorted that it couldn't be the case since pre WW2 veterans did not get a GI Bill.

It is a bullshit argument to say a free education will not be appreciated, since the student actually has to work to earn the degree. Most of Western Europe has free or subsidized education, so are you telling me all these European graduates don't appreciate their degrees?

So the graduates from Germany, Norway, Sweden, Scotland etc.. don't appreciate their degrees, is that what you are claiming?
https://europe.graduateshotline.com/free-education.html

 

[Timmahhhh]

Let me break this down for you. Just because the past generations got treated like shit and did not get something they earned does not mean I did not earn my G.I. Bill. That shit was earned. It was not free.
@Beaver Brownlee is trying to explain to your dumbass that a "free" degree(i.e. one payed for by taxpayers and in no way earned) will not be appreciated by the recipients.

You tried to present Veterans as an example of free shit. Fuck that. I earned my shit with Blood and battle. Now go play with crayons you simple minded fuck.

The time spent getting a degree is worth as much as the money spent on tuition.

 

[surrealworlds]

No asshole, you fail to understand that this thread is three pages long and everyone can see your entire conversation. YOU were the one that brought up WW2 veterans and tried to make the asinine assertion that because WW2 veterans fought but did not receive the G.I. Bill that therefore the G.I. Bill was a freebie for all future veterans.

Veterans before them did not have a G.I. Bill.
So the G.I. Bill was an extra benefit afforded to veterans post WW2.

It was that post right there asshat. No post before that brought up WW2 veterans.
I will say this again, if you want to argue over how much college students will appreciate a "free" education, go for it. I'm in the middle on it tbh. Most people dont appreciate free shit. But some do.

But if you want to make the assertion that veterans have not earned the G.I. Bill I'm going to call you out on that bullshit 100% of the time.

You fail to understand that the conversation I entered into was about WW2 veterans , it wasn't about current veterans who signed up believing their service entitles them to the benefits afforded in the GI Bill. The argument from @JDragon was about ww2 vets getting free education. @Beaver Brownlee said it was not free because their service earned it. To which I retorted that it couldn't be the case since pre WW2 veterans did not get a GI Bill.

It is a bullshit argument to say a free education will not be appreciated, since the student actually has to work to earn the degree. Most of Western Europe has free or subsidized education, so are you telling me all these European graduates don't appreciate their degrees?

So the graduates from Germany, Norway, Sweden, Scotland etc.. don't appreciate their degrees, is that what you are claiming?
https://europe.graduateshotline.com/free-education.html

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

G.I bill isn't a free ride - it's compensation for service. The Ontario plan was free for being an economic eunuch, and reduced cost for being a few steps above that.

All on board for exchanging reimbursement for people who graduated with a STEM degree (mostly focused on comp sci or mechatronic engineering) who don't flock to the states for a decade.

 

[MicroBrew]

No asshole, you fail to understand that this thread is three pages long and everyone can see your entire conversation. YOU were the one that brought up WW2 veterans and tried to make the asinine assertion that because WW2 veterans fought but did not receive the G.I. Bill that therefore the G.I. Bill was a freebie for all future veterans.

It was that post right there asshat. No post before that brought up WW2 veterans.
I will say this again, if you want to argue over how much college students will appreciate a "free" education, go for it. I'm in the middle on it tbh. Most people dont appreciate free shit. But some do.

But if you want to make the assertion that veterans have not earned the G.I. Bill I'm going to call you out on that bullshit 100% of the time.

I didn't bring up the GI Bill, @ultramanhyata did. To which @Beaver Brownlee responded and then I responded to beaver brownlee. In my earlier post when I said @JDragon I meant to say @ultramanhyata .

You do have a comprehension problem since I never said WW2 vets did not get afforded benefits of the GI Bill, I said WW1 vets did reap the benefits of service as the post WW2 veterans did.

The GI Bill was a freebie when it was created because Americans who served during WW1 did not get such benefits. Post 9-11 veterans got additional benefits through the "Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act of 2008" .

 

[MicroBrew]

G.I bill isn't a free ride - it's compensation for service. The Ontario plan was free for being an economic eunuch, and reduced cost for being a few steps above that.

All on board for exchanging reimbursement for people who graduated with a STEM degree (mostly focused on comp sci or mechatronic engineering) who don't flock to the states for a decade.

It's considered compensation for service post WW2 but it was not always the case that service alone entitled one to said benefits.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

It's considered compensation for service post WW2 but it was not always the case that service alone entitled one to said benefits.

The design is focused on compensation for service, and it's been mostly used that way for nearly 80 years. Not sure what your point is with that rebuttal

Did they get free tutition in exchange for nothing? Or even with service, they didnt get the compensation

 

[MicroBrew]

The design is focused on compensation for service, and it's been mostly used that way for nearly 80 years. Not sure what your point is with that rebuttal

That it was free college for the WW2 veterans, since veterans from WW1 did not get afforded such benefits.

 

[surrealworlds]

I didn't bring up the GI Bill, @ultramanhyata did. To which @Beaver Brownlee responded and then I responded to beaver brownlee. In my earlier post when I said @JDragon I meant to say @ultramanhyata .

You do have a comprehension problem since I never said WW2 vets did not get afforded benefits of the GI Bill, I said WW1 vets did reap the benefits of service as the post WW2 veterans did.

The GI Bill was a freebie when it was created because Americans who served during WW1 did not get such benefits. Post 9-11 veterans got additional benefits through the "Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act of 2008" .

No, it is not a freebie. It is earned through service. I do not understand why you cant wrap your head around that. TBH I just think you are the type of person to never admit when they are wrong. NO part of the G.I. Bill is free. It is paid for by the service of the recipient.
It has nothing to do with the benefits of soldiers that came before. You keep trying to circle back to this argument that because prior service members did not receive this benefit that makes it a freebie, no it does not. It is earned through service in the military. I really cannot say it in any simpler terms than that. Just because a benefit was not offered in the past does not make it free.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

That it was free college for the WW2 veterans, since veterans from WW1 did not get afforded such benefits.

Alright, but it's been policy for nearly 80 years so the history is pretty established in the modern era, no?

 

[MicroBrew]

No, it is not a freebie. It is earned through service. I do not understand why you cant wrap your head around that. TBH I just think you are the type of person to never admit when they are wrong. NO part of the G.I. Bill is free. It is paid for by the service of the recipient.
It has nothing to do with the benefits of soldiers that came before. You keep trying to circle back to this argument that because prior service members did not receive this benefit that makes it a freebie, no it does not. It is earned through service in the military. I really cannot say it in any simpler terms than that. Just because a benefit was not offered in the past does not make it free.

The GI Bill was added after WW2 so if you had served during WW1 and saw no such benefit, how is the free college tuition not a freebie, since both you and the WW2 vets served.

Should the government choose to provide free college education for all , it isn't a freebie either then since "just because a benefit was not offered in the past does not make it free" .

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Yeah if an idea fails it should definitely never be attempted again. You're a smart motherfucker.

But you guys told us how we should be more like Canada and Europe...

Just like we tried to tell you that ACA insurance was going to be shit.

 

[MicroBrew]

Alright, but it's been policy for nearly 80 years so the history is pretty established in the modern era, no?

Sure, and by the same token universal health care and free college can also said to not be free once they get established. UHC and Free college would be expected as entitled benefits for tax payers / citizens of the US.

 

[surrealworlds]

The GI Bill was added after WW2 so if you had served during WW1 and saw no such benefit, how is the free college tuition not a freebie, since both you and the WW2 vets served.

Should the government choose to provide free college education for all , it isn't a freebie either then since "just because a benefit was not offered in the past does not make it free" .

It is not a "freebie" because it was earned by service in the military. Just because other service members did not receive the same benefit in the past does not equal it being unearned or "free".

 

[surrealworlds]

@MicroBrew
Let me try this a different way. I served 6 years active duty. 2 of those years I fought in combat zones. As part of my contract when I signed up, it was stated that if I serve honorably I have earned my G.I. Bill.
Now, would you say my G.I. Bill is a freebie or an earned benefit?

 

[MicroBrew]

@MicroBrew
Let me try this a different way. I served 6 years active duty. 2 of those years I fought in combat zones. As part of my contract when I signed up, it was stated that if I serve honorably I have earned my G.I. Bill.
Now, would you say my G.I. Bill is a freebie or an earned benefit?

For post WW2 vets whose contract promised the benefits mentioned in the GI Bill, it is considered a part of the compensation package for serving, just as a paycheck is. But these benefits were added on after WW2, so the benefits weren't originally considered as compensation for serving, it was only later considered as such.

Outside of a full scholarship, most people have to pay for higher education, if you are attending a 4 year university or college. But as with the case of the WW1 vets and WW2 vets , if the government was to pass a law stating that everyone is entitled to a 4 year college/university education at no cost to them, it would be a benefit afforded to future generations that previous generations did not have.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

First off I'm not a guy I'm a gal. Second I'm just pointing out the gaping logical flaw in your argument, and I know gaping.

1-"You guys" doesnt mean that you are a guy.

2- pics or its a work

3- just as you guys and gals pointed out how great Obamacare would be.

My stepdaughter is a freshman in college now and I have twins that start next year. I wish I could convince myself that free college will/would be great for the country, but nothing in life is free and I can only convince myself that it would be great for my bank account

 

[Beaver Brownlee]

Americans who served in WW1 did not get the benefits afforded to WW2 veterans. So the GI Bill was a freebie / added benefit.

They have to serve to get it, ergo not free.