So, is Maia subbing Askren or what?

[fortheo]

Generally, Maia does not submit elite fighters.

Munoz, Weidman and Shields all obliged grappling and even scored take downs on Maia and beat him. They are bigger then Askren of course, but he's the best wrestler of that bunch.

Maia spent minutes at a time on Masvidal's back and couldn't get anywhere, eeked out a split decision. If he taps out Ben, then we know Ben doesn't belong in the UFC.

Ben askren isn't very similar to weidman or munoz. Weidman spent 14+ minutes of a 15 minute fight striking with Maia. Yes, I just re-watched it. Most of Weidman's "engaging in grappling" looked like this:



Weidman getting a takedown, then Maia standing up.

Also, Maia arguably beat Munoz and Shields. The only reason shields won that fight is because he won round 5, which was a sloppy kickboxing match up, before that it was even.

Unlike all the guys you mentioned, Ben doesn't have the option to tilt the score cards with striking—he can only grapple. Weidman and Munoz primarily struck with Maia and just sprinkled random takedowns in here and there without spending much time at all with him on the Mat. Ben can't do that.

Shields is really the only legit comparison here, but shields is also a Gracie black belt in BJJ and a far, far more proven MMA fighter than Askren, and again he only won a SD because he slightly outpointed Maia in a kickboxing match in round 5.

One last thing. Just because Maia submits you doesn't mean you don't belong in the UFC. Plenty of fighters have had good careers in the UFC and still got submitted by Maia. Hell, Sonnen got submitted by Maia and then went on to fight for a title, twice. In the case with Ben, if Maia wins, I'd say it's just because he faced a dangerous stylistic match up for him.

I will agree that he typically doesn't submit the elite guys, though, but instead either wins via positioning and control or he just loses to them.

 

[Derbemag]

Maia by KO/TKO

MAIA = GOAT

 

[Ruhler]

hell no Ben is gonna win every second of this fight.

 

[Guffman]

Wish this fight could have happened 5 years ago.

 

[boingyman]

I don't know, but this is a matchup I wanted for a long time as I enjoy grappling exchanges amongst high level guys.

 

[rjmbrd]

Ben askren isn't very similar to weidman or munoz. Weidman spent 14+ minutes of a 15 minute fight striking with Maia. Yes, I just re-watched it. Most of Weidman's "engaging in grappling" looked like this:



Weidman getting a takedown, then Maia standing up.

Also, Maia arguably beat Munoz and Shields. The only reason shields won that fight is because he won round 5, which was a sloppy kickboxing match up, before that it was even.

Unlike all the guys you mentioned, Ben doesn't have the option to tilt the score cards with striking—he can only grapple. Weidman and Munoz primarily struck with Maia and just sprinkled random takedowns in here and there without spending much time at all with him on the Mat. Ben can't do that.

Shields is really the only legit comparison here, but shields is also a Gracie black belt in BJJ and a far, far more proven MMA fighter than Askren, and again he only won a SD because he slightly outpointed Maia in a kickboxing match in round 5.

One last thing. Just because Maia submits you doesn't mean you don't belong in the UFC. Plenty of fighters have had good careers in the UFC and still got submitted by Maia. Hell, Sonnen got submitted by Maia and then went on to fight for a title, twice. In the case with Ben, if Maia wins, I'd say it's just because he faced a dangerous stylistic match up for him.

I will agree that he typically doesn't submit the elite guys, though, but instead either wins via positioning and control or he just loses to them.

My point was that "Maia generally does not tap elite fighters," and you seem to agree.

I didn't say, for example, that Maia gets wiped out against all elite fighters (although something pretty similar to that would be true at welterweight in particular) and if Maia puts away Ben, its time for Ben to move on.

Ben getting tapped by Maia in of itself wouldn't insist he should be out of the UFC, but within the context of coming out of retirement (and citing valid reasons for retirement) then getting nearly murdered by Lawler, knocked scary, scary unconscious by Masvidal.......... THEN getting tapped by Maia.

 

[fortheo]

Have a feeling Maia will snatch a limb and sub Askren in this first....

Thoughts?

Yes, Maia is submitting him

Maia is more of a dominating BJJ guy than a bottom guard player, he likes passing guard and working dominant positions until he gets a submission. Askren will want to put him on his back. Not a lot of people dared that approach. It will answer questions on both guys and I can't get a pick honestly.

Maia has a very dangerous guard actually and I'm not sure where the opposite narrative came from. He hits sweeps on practically everyone and gets top position. He's one of the most prolific sweepers in the game, and it came in handy yesterday:

Maia was all over Rocco last fight and didn't really sniff a sub. I think Askren dominates him

Wrestling > BJJ ya goof

Nah, Askren will LnP him to a decision..

Askren isn't the type of heavy, big, strong wrestler who is super hard to move, to gain any position against (like Usman), he welcomes scrambles and in the athletic spectrum he sucks, so unless Maia gasses very early, i think he dominates Askren both standing and grappling, if Askren takes him down early, Maia gets a sweep and maybe a early sub.
Only way i see Maia losing is if by end of R2 he looks like shit. Then Askren gets a decision, i guess. Seriously hope not.

Spot on. Everyone acted like maia had no bottom game for some reason. It's like they've not watched him land sweeps in nearly every single one of his fights...

 

[TheLinguist]

Wrestling > BJJ ya goof

Lmao

 

[executionermma]

Spot on. Everyone acted like maia had no bottom game for some reason. It's like they've not watched him land sweeps in nearly every single one of his fights...

yeah i've been saying since Askren got signed by UFC that Maia would be a nightmare match up for Askren, and that Askren wouldn't be able to hang with Maia on the ground at all

i was kinda surprised so many were counting Maia off just because "duh, wrestling > BJJ", when in fact Maia has beat most of the wrestlers he fought, only the very best ones, with decent striking, have been able to outpoint him

 

[fortheo]

yeah i've been saying since Askren got signed by UFC that Maia would be a nightmare match up for Askren, and that Askren wouldn't be able to hang with Maia on the ground at all

i was kinda surprised so many were counting Maia off just because "duh, wrestling > BJJ", when in fact Maia has beat most of the wrestlers he fought, only the very best ones, with decent striking, have been able to outpoint him

I was saying the same man. Even in this thread, I was trying to shut down the "Askren will do what shields did" comparison. People didn't realize that Shields is an extremely high level BJJ player on top of his wrestling, and even then he struggled to win a SD, which he really only won because of the last round which took place on the feet striking.

People were doubting Maia's game off of his back based off of that one controversial split decision against a fellow BJJ ace in Shields, when really Maia typically sweeps practically everyone who gets on top of him. I seriously can't think of someone who lands more sweeps in MMA than maia.

I'm actually feeling bad for Askren though. He hasn't had an easy run in the UFC: a controversial win over Lawler, a 3 second ko from Masvidal, and a stylistic nightmare match up against Maia. I think askren is a top 15 guy, but he just hasn't had it easy at all in the match making department.

 

[5crew]

This thread definitely didn't age well. 80% of the posts were so sure at something happening and didn't happen.

Askren walks through him. Unless your a pro in both aspects like I am please keep your opinions to yourselves

Sup, pro. Nice opinion.

 

[Me&MrJones]

Lmao

Askren just isn't legit.

 

[SovereignPhantom]

I was saying the same man. Even in this thread, I was trying to shut down the "Askren will do what shields did" comparison. People didn't realize that Shields is an extremely high level BJJ player on top of his wrestling, and even then he struggled to win a SD, which he really only won because of the last round which took place on the feet striking.

People were doubting Maia's game off of his back based off of that one controversial split decision against a fellow BJJ ace in Shields, when really Maia typically sweeps practically everyone who gets on top of him. I seriously can't think of someone who lands more sweeps in MMA than maia.

I'm actually feeling bad for Askren though. He hasn't had an easy run in the UFC: a controversial win over Lawler, a 3 second ko from Masvidal, and a stylistic nightmare match up against Maia. I think askren is a top 15 guy, but he just hasn't had it easy at all in the match making department.

To be fair, Askren was a champ in 2 different orgs and wanted to prove he's the best in the world, so the Greg Hardy route wasn't really an option. And 2019 Lawler isn't a bad first fight given his background. He definitely had a tough run though.