So if Krusher lost to Ward, can GGG beat ward?

[senri]

This should not really be anything worth thinking about for our dendrites. GGG simply does not have the frame to generate the kind of power Mr Kov brings with that tight elastic flesh. Mr Kov is the kind of texture you find masticating Tako (octopus flesh) nigiri at the local sushi restaurant. Tough to chew but once tenderized, hwo good does it feel good when you swallow, you can feel it slide inside of you before absorption.

Ward is quite strong but the increase in weight is one thing his body still needs time to adjust, add in the ring rust and we cannot be definitive. Nonetheless he would have a much easier time with GGG, who also is quite slow in footwork. Also seeing GGG get hit, i have felt his body quiver nicely on time to time, i believe his body can relax soon enough. I cannot wait to consume...

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Ward was willing to fight him at 164 and GGG (or his pro,others) said "no".

GGG also failed to make fights against Carl Froch, Anothy Darrell, Peter Quillen, Sergio Martinez, Miguel Cotto, Daniel Jacobs, Canelo Alvarez and Erilandy Lara. Any of those guys would be better wins than anyone GGG has beat so far. Of course his pro,others and fans claim that all of them were scared to fight GGG, unlike guys like David Lemieux and Willie Monroe, but I suspect that at least a few of those fights would have happened if they had really wanted them.

LOL! What on earth kind of list is that???

 

[Shoemaker]

Well, that was easy. If you gave Round 10 to Kovalev then he wins the fight on the official scorecards.

Do you have faith in the judges scores or not? Or do you only have faith in specific rounds, i.e. the ones you agreed with?

 

[quincy k]

Ward is fighting a weight class up from where he had massive success cutting less weight than others. He moved up a weight class to fight Kovalev. Unless you think Ward weighing in at 176 against Dawson means he's a massive SMW. That's 3 pounds different that Golovkin's highest weight.

youre talking about a fight that happened four years ago; this after andre himself recently admitted that he can no longer make 168

http://www.boxingscene.com/andre-ward-rules-out-fights-168-175-not-easy-make--107486

only an idiot would be demanding that golovkin fight a guy theoretically two weight classes above him...a pfp fighter no less

 

[JayE]

youre talking about a fight that happened four years ago; this after andre himself recently admitted that he can no longer make 168

http://www.boxingscene.com/andre-ward-rules-out-fights-168-175-not-easy-make--107486

only an idiot would be demanding that golovkin fight a guy theoretically two weight classes above him...a pfp fighter no less

I don't think the fight is even a possibility anymore, and it shouldn't be unless Golovkin is excessively ambitious. I also don't fault Golovkin for never seriously pursuing a fight with Ward when he was a SMW (regardless what his camp said about anyone 154-168 could get it); Golovkin is a natual MW and has no obligation to go looking for fights at SMW. The original point was that when Andre was a SMW, he wasn't a significantly different sized man than Golovkin.

Stuff Jones is saying that Ward was always a natural LHW who was draining down a massive amount to fight at SMW. That's false in every single imaginable way. Ward rehydrated less than 10 pounds on average to make SMW and he routinely gave up height and weight. He was the smaller man in essentially every one of his major SMW fights (Froch said as much leading up to Ward/Kovalev). It's really lazy and ineffective way of diminishing Ward as a fighter, but that's par for the course for Stuff Jones. If anything, Ward rehydrated less on average than most SMWs and had a below average reach. Again, he rehydrated less on average fighting at SMW than Golovkin does fighting at MW, and no one in their right mind would call Golovkin an oversized MW.

 

[Shoemaker]

I don't think Golovkin poses more of a risk for Ward than Kov. Though I think Golovkin can nullify Ward inside more than Sergey did. It comes down to Ward not entering the ring nervous. He won't wait as long to get going because he won't come with that mental baggage.

 

[nac386]

I don't think Golovkin poses more of a risk for Ward than Kov. Though I think Golovkin can nullify Ward inside more than Sergey did. It comes down to Ward not entering the ring nervous. He won't wait as long to get going because he won't come with that mental baggage.

I commented before the fight on how strange it was to me that Ward fans talked about the Kovalev fight like it was going to be an easy fight, like Ward would do anything he wanted at any time, like the result was an inevitability. Not in those exact words, but pretty much. Ward fans never pointed out what Kov could do to give him trouble, they just kept talking about Ward. They rarely even mentioned Kovalev's abilities.

Of course the Ward vs Kovalev fight turned out pretty much exactly how I predicted. It was not an easy fight at all, and he certainly did not do anything he wanted in there. He struggled for 12 rounds to get the W. It is truly a fight that Ward won fair and square, but could have gone either way.

But I see that occurring again now with the idea of a GGG fight (a fight less likely to happen). Once again, Ward will do anything he wants, he'll dominate in there, it's inevitable. I just don't see it. It's another very tough fight, against another skilled fighter with a high level of ability.

 

[Shoemaker]

I commented before the fight on how strange it was to me that Ward fans talked about the Kovalev fight like it was going to be an easy fight, like Ward would do anything he wanted at any time, like the result was an inevitability. Not in those exact words, but pretty much. Ward fans never pointed out what Kov could do to give him trouble, they just kept talking about Ward. They rarely even mentioned Kovalev's abilities.

Of course the Ward vs Kovalev fight turned out pretty much exactly how I predicted. It was not an easy fight at all, and he certainly did not do anything he wanted in there. He struggled for 12 rounds to get the W. It is truly a fight that Ward won fair and square, but could have gone either way.

But I see that occurring again now with the idea of a GGG fight (a fight less likely to happen). Once again, Ward will do anything he wants, he'll dominate in there, it's inevitable. I just don't see it. It's another very tough fight, against another skilled fighter with a high level of ability.

Yeah I was never sure if you were talking to me; you never mentioned my name so I assumed not but who knows. Anyway, I never thought Ward would be able to do whatever he wanted. What I couldn't figure out was why people kept saying "Ward won't be able to keep Kov off him," which was true but beside the point: why would Ward want to keep Kov off him? Turns out I was right, too; Ward won that fight on the inside.

 

[nac386]

Yeah I was never sure if you were talking to me; you never mentioned my name so I assumed not but who knows. Anyway, I never thought Ward would be able to do whatever he wanted. What I couldn't figure out was why people kept saying "Ward won't be able to keep Kov off him," which was true but beside the point: why would Ward want to keep Kov off him? Turns out I was right, too; Ward won that fight on the inside.

I wasn't talking to any one person, it just seemed like everyone was drawing incredibly clear lines with very little middle ground. I never saw that fight as one with an obvious outcome.

If someone said, "Ward won't be able to keep Kov off him," then they were exposing that they really did not know much about either one of them. Sometimes people say stuff like that though when they really mean to say that one guy's size and power will be too much for the other (or that the smaller guy won't hit hard enough to gain respect). Taken literally though, it's pretty silly.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Do you have faith in the judges scores or not? Or do you only have faith in specific rounds, i.e. the ones you agreed with?

I don't think I have to repeat myself on what I believe. That and it's not even about what I believe. I wanted to run a social experiment and Buster was unknowingly willing.

 

[Shoemaker]

I wasn't talking to any one person, it just seemed like everyone was drawing incredibly clear lines with very little middle ground.

Could be, but I don't like to make a habit out of justifying or explaining what other people say. I don't mean to come off like a dick, but if you took exception to something I said, then please quote it. Otherwise it's sort of irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, at least if you're replying or directing it at me (and since I'm a part of the collective "everyone", I'm assuming is true now).

What I saw was a few posters getting overzealous about how Kovalev was going to cream Ward, and then other posters rightfully saying "haha" and explaining their laughter. That was me, at least.

I never saw that fight as one with an obvious outcome. If someone said, "Ward won't be able to keep Kov off him," then they were exposing that they really did not know much about either one of them. Sometimes people say stuff like that though when they really mean to say that one guy's size and power will be too much for the other (or that the smaller guy won't hit hard enough to gain respect). Taken literally though, it's pretty silly.

Well, the few instances where I posted about it, that was the case. One guy literally said it didn't matter because Ward had never faced someone like Kov before. Which was kind of true, but said absolutely nothing about what the inside game would actually look like. When I pressed that particular poster about what he actually expected, there was no response. So your "so-and-so what acting ridiculous before the fight" applies just as much, if not more so, to those fans.



But isn't this silly? I'm talking to you about what other people said, and you're talking to me about what other people have said. I can't defend them anymore than you can. This is a debate that goes nowhere, imo.

 

[Shoemaker]

I don't think I have to repeat myself on what I believe. That and it's not even about what I believe. I wanted to run a social experiment and Buster was unknowingly willing.

If you're trying to mix and match score cards, you absolutely do have to repeat yourself. And before you try to deflect, you just did that. You tried to invalidate Buster's score card by saying if he gave Kov the 10th, then Ward "lost on the official scorecards." But the official scorecards are bullshit, right? So why do they matter?


inb4 5 paragraphs that having nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

If you're trying to mix and match score cards, you absolutely do have to repeat yourself. And before you try to deflect, you just did that. You tried to invalidate Buster's score card by saying if he gave Kov the 10th, then Ward "lost on the official scorecards." But the official scorecards are bullshit, right? So why do they matter?

inb4 5 paragraphs that having nothing to do with what I said.

The official scores were bullshit. So you take their bullshit, flip one round that wasn't a swing round (it was certainly a clear Kovalev round), and you have him winning. Those bs scores still matter because they rendered the decision and not a bunch of misdirection used by pro-Ward fans and Kovalev detractors.

It's become one of the biggest jokes in boxing lately by unbiased organizations that cover boxing closely. The cat's been out of the bag. It's already been mentioned with the likes of the Bradley decision although that's quite an exaggeration.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

I commented before the fight on how strange it was to me that Ward fans talked about the Kovalev fight like it was going to be an easy fight, like Ward would do anything he wanted at any time, like the result was an inevitability. Not in those exact words, but pretty much. Ward fans never pointed out what Kov could do to give him trouble, they just kept talking about Ward. They rarely even mentioned Kovalev's abilities.

Of course the Ward vs Kovalev fight turned out pretty much exactly how I predicted. It was not an easy fight at all, and he certainly did not do anything he wanted in there. He struggled for 12 rounds to get the W. It is truly a fight that Ward won fair and square, but could have gone either way.

But I see that occurring again now with the idea of a GGG fight (a fight less likely to happen). Once again, Ward will do anything he wants, he'll dominate in there, it's inevitable. I just don't see it. It's another very tough fight, against another skilled fighter with a high level of ability.

While I agree with you about the Ward fan thing i dont see similarites between Kov and GGG. I think GGG is waaaaay more comfortable fighting inside than Kov, but the difference is that Ward is bigger, a true LHW. GGG not that long ago was talking about going to 154 for a fight with Mayweather ( realistically or not).

Kov had a lot of success early in the fight with Ward keeping him on the outside and tagging him when Ward tried to come in. A GGG-Ward fight would be fought at mid range- close range for most of it, and i think Ward's size advantage wins the day. So in that aspect the fights are different

I thought Ward lost the Kov fight but even if i think that, i can still admit when the action was in close, Ward was doing great work. I dont see GGG being able to handle a bigger man like that who is such a master inside. I think GGG is amazing, but his style kind of fights right in to what the gameplan i imagine would be for Ward. When he comes forward tie him up, lean on him, wrestle with him, use your size, throw body punches to slow him down, take him into the late rounds. GGG would have to land big early and often to win. Maybe he could though. I dunno. I just wouldnt bet on it.

 

[Shoemaker]

The official scores were bullshit. So you take their bullshit, flip one round that wasn't a swing round (it was certainly a clear Kovalev round), and you have him winning. Those bs scores still matter because they rendered the decision and not a bunch of misdirection used by pro-Ward fans and Kovalev detractors.

It's become one of the biggest jokes in boxing lately by unbiased organizations that cover boxing closely. The cat's been out of the bag. It's already been mentioned with the likes of the Bradley decision although that's quite an exaggeration.

You don't get to have it both ways. You don't get to call them bullshit, and then use them to justify some hypothetical win. That's nonsense.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You don't get to have it both ways. You don't get to call them bullshit, and then use them to justify some hypothetical win. That's nonsense.

The Ring had a majority vote and called it bullshit. So did the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board which is global. Journalists from the Boxing Writers Association of America. Name the organization or publication.

 

[senri]

I commented before the fight on how strange it was to me that Ward fans talked about the Kovalev fight like it was going to be an easy fight, like Ward would do anything he wanted at any time, like the result was an inevitability. Not in those exact words, but pretty much. Ward fans never pointed out what Kov could do to give him trouble, they just kept talking about Ward. They rarely even mentioned Kovalev's abilities.

Of course the Ward vs Kovalev fight turned out pretty much exactly how I predicted. It was not an easy fight at all, and he certainly did not do anything he wanted in there. He struggled for 12 rounds to get the W. It is truly a fight that Ward won fair and square, but could have gone either way.

But I see that occurring again now with the idea of a GGG fight (a fight less likely to happen). Once again, Ward will do anything he wants, he'll dominate in there, it's inevitable. I just don't see it. It's another very tough fight, against another skilled fighter with a high level of ability.

i would agree with your juices but you assume GGG is in the same playing field of power as Mr Kovalev. The difference in power was apparent to Mr Ward, GGG is too slow and has overall less power then Mr Kovalev.

 

[Shoemaker]

The Ring had a majority vote and called it bullshit. So did the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board which is global. Journalists from the Boxing Writers Association of America. Name the organization or publication.

Then you shouldn't be using them to justify anything, right?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Then you shouldn't be using them to justify anything, right?

Would you rather trust a system (NSAC in this case) with a rich history of politics, corruption, a complete lack of neutrality and oversight or the reputable majority that have no vested interest in either fighter/are impartial? That's a tough one.

 

[Shoemaker]

Would you rather trust a system (NSAC in this case) with a rich history of politics, corruption, a complete lack of neutrality and oversight or the reputable majority that have no vested interest in either fighter/are impartial? That's a tough one.

That's not the point and you know it. Stop it.