So are we all just pretending Jones's impossible T/E levels didn't happen now?

[BomberMan]

i know a guy who was going to do this, but instead he found something else to do with his free time.

I thought it was kinda neat.

lmao!

 

[Mob69]

That's the most sickening thing about all of this. UFC discontinues drug testing program because of "Cung Le"... but that just doesn't make any fucking sense... especially since it was the day AFTER Jon tests positive.

Exactly friend. And apologies for copying and pasting from an earlier post I wrote, but this sums up my views on the issue:

'And apparently it's up to the fans to keep this alive, because the MMA media are ignoring this. It's beyond pathetic.

They should be doing their job, producing stories featuring multiple doping specialists and doctors, breaking down these ratios, establishing the range of possible explanations, tracking the timeline of testing/administration, and coming to grips with Jones's movements.

Instead the media say 'let's wait and see'!!!! Like someone else is going to do the above work for them!!!!

Can you believe this shit!!!'

Apologies for the repost, but....darn.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

the UFC gets to dictate the narrative of the story unfortunately.

Actually, this has been an NSAC show. None of the major promotions have any say over this kind of thing.

 

[mudrubble]

That's the most sickening thing about all of this. UFC discontinues drug testing program because of "Cung Le"... but that just doesn't make any fucking sense... especially since it was the day AFTER Jon tests positive.

Nothing they do makes sense, so why is this a standout? They've certainly done a lot weirder, more corrupt and dishonest things than this....

What's new? Why are we shocked?

 

[Blackened]

This. Jones haters are the biggest losers around.

I've officially given up on the issue and no longer will waste any of my time doing it, but come on man, don't think think it's fucked up they end the drug testing program the day after the receive the results?

Don't you think it's fucked up they crucified your boy Wanderlei for not taking a test, yet when someone's levels are off and they are caught doing coke it's A-OK?

 

[Uncommon Valor]

On Sherdog, everyone is a scientist.

 

[Takamine86]

Luke Thomas: "Are there natural explanations for why it could be that low?"

Dr. Don Catlin: "Yeah, the normal range is from around .1 up to 4, so you can be that low and have absolutely nothing wrong".

Catlin is the founder of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory, which is the first U.S. anti-doping lab, where he served as director for 25 years.

But lets just ignore the experts because sherdoggers are the real experts.

 

[Blackened]

Nothing they do makes sense, so why is this a standout? They've certainly done a lot weirder, more corrupt and dishonest things than this....

What's new? Why are we shocked?

In my ten years on this forum, I don't remember anything this fucked. I actually believed the companies narrative until this debacle.

The only thing I remember this bad was when Fertitta voted to keep MMA banned in Nevada so he could buy the UFC for a lower price, and I wasn't even around to witness that.

 

[Doodles]

You do understand that there was a HUGE differenc ebetween Cormier and Jones. Cormier had normal levels of Testosterone in both tests.

Doesn't that mean that he had abnormal levels of epitestosterone then? If his ratio was .4:1?

I thought that the whole initial argument was about using epi as a masking agent?
Isn't it just as suspicious to have double the normal amount of epi? Wasn't Jon's epi normal suggesting he didn't use maskers as was initially suggested?

This has probably been explained a dozen times but to tell you the truth, I'm confused and bored with it because I'm struggling to work out how much of this is incompetence of the testers and how much of it is people trying to screw Bones.

 

[mudrubble]

Luke Thomas: "Are there natural explanations for why it could be that low?"

Dr. Don Catlin: "Yeah, the normal range is from around .1 up to 4, so you can be that low and have absolutely nothing wrong".

Catlin is the founder of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory, which is the first U.S. anti-doping lab, where he served as director for 25 years.

But lets just ignore the experts because sherdoggers are the real experts.

But what if you hate Jon Jones? And what if ONLY his numbers are released PLUS you hate him??

THEN can you go in on him?? Huh??

And as for this doctor guy, what's his poster name? If he ain't on Sherdog he don't count. That might bring real life into this..... and who wants that?

 

[rearnakedchoke]

It was no worse that DC's....

so do nothing? i say investigate both, if anything found, fine and suspend both fighters, make it a no contest ... just because both guys cheat a la sherk and franca, doesn't mean nothing should be done ...

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

So now we are arguing about decimals? Get over it...they were both low, who gives a fuk.

1. When comparing numerical ratios, arguing about decimals is necessary, no?

2. Both Jones and Cormier had low t/e ratios. Cormier's was roughly twice as high. Does that mean anything? I have no idea, but anyone saying they are the same is bad at math.

3. Cormier's t/e ratio is worth discussing in its own right, but even if he could be shown to be abusing PEDs, it would not condemn or exonerate Jon Jones.

 

[Blackened]

Luke Thomas: "Are there natural explanations for why it could be that low?"

Dr. Don Catlin: "Yeah, the normal range is from around .1 up to 4, so you can be that low and have absolutely nothing wrong".

Catlin is the founder of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory, which is the first U.S. anti-doping lab, where he served as director for 25 years.

But lets just ignore the experts because sherdoggers are the real experts.

.1-4 ng/mL? .1-4ug/mL? .1-4ng/dL?

This is called "appeal to authority", which wouldn't be so bad if other authorities on the subject hadn't shown evidence that the standard range for a urine test is 30-60 ng/mL, and Jones' 4.9 ng/mL is indicative of hypogonadism or cycling.

Nonetheless, I have enough evidence to draw my own conclusions. I won't continue to argue about it on here.

 

[mudrubble]

In my ten years on this forum, I don't remember anything this fucked. I actually believed the companies narrative until this debacle.

The only thing I remember this bad was when Fertitta voted to keep MMA banned in Nevada so he could buy the UFC for a lower price, and I wasn't even around to witness that.

I just mean they've never seemed to give a fuck about steroid use except when the public did or if they didn't want to keep a fighter on the roster. In this case they want the fighter on the roster SO BADLY that public outrage isn't enough. That outrage will sell them tickets.

It's a slight shift. I see what you mean. But Jon's a needle mover. He makes slight shifts.

 

[TriangleKing]

Because they performed the CIR and no masking agents were found

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Doesn't that mean that he had abnormal levels of epitestosterone then? If his ratio was .4:1?

I thought that the whole initial argument was about using epi as a masking agent?
Isn't it just as suspicious to have double the normal amount of epi? Wasn't Jon's epi normal suggesting he didn't use maskers as was initially suggested?

This has probably been explained a dozen times but to tell you the truth, I'm confused and bored with it because I'm struggling to work out how much of this is incompetence of the testers and how much of it is people trying to screw Bones.

If the testers are incompetent, then that needs to be shown. But using minimal knowledge of things like t/e ratios garnered almost exclusively from fan arguments online, and then questioning the competence of trained medical professionals with expertise in precisely this area is the stuff of conspiracy theories.

 

[adamsilva]

It was no worse that DC's....

Bro, do you even math?

 

[kflo]

Question 1 - Fair point. The Jamaican programme is, errr, suspicious. But, so far as I know, Bolt hasn't produced multiple suspicious pieces of evidence in his bloodwork. Happy to be corrected if wrong.

Questions 2 and 3 - Fair question. Yes, I believe so.

Can you name any?

I just don't believe the media has been as thorough investigating other sports as you and many others are suggesting.

 

[Jin Akutsu]

Doesn't that mean that he had abnormal levels of epitestosterone then? If his ratio was .4:1?

I thought that the whole initial argument was about using epi as a masking agent?
Isn't it just as suspicious to have double the normal amount of epi? Wasn't Jon's epi normal suggesting he didn't use maskers as was initially suggested?

This has probably been explained a dozen times but to tell you the truth, I'm confused and bored with it because I'm struggling to work out how much of this is incompetence of the testers and how much of it is people trying to screw Bones.

JJ's Epi levels are not normal.

It was no worse that DC's....

This is simply not true.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

.1-4 ng/mL? .1-4ug/mL? .1-4ng/dL?

This is called "appeal to authority", which wouldn't be so bad if other authorities on the subject hadn't shown evidence that the standard range for a urine test is 30-60 ng/mL, and Jones' 4.9 ng/mL is indicative of hypogonadism or cycling.

Nonetheless, I have enough evidence to draw my own conclusions. I won't continue to argue about it on here.

It is my understanding that absolute t or e levels can be hard to gauge accurately with a urine test.

Can someone clarify?