So are we all just pretending Jones's impossible T/E levels didn't happen now?

[Mob69]

Because we have evidence that shows his T/E ratio?

Where have you been, junior?

Exactly. There are GROUNDS for believing that PED usage is a strong possibility. It's not definitive, nor is it 'proof'. But it is 'evidence' - and there are several pieces of it.

And apparently it's up to the fans to keep this alive, because the MMA media are ignoring this. It's beyond pathetic.

They should be doing their job, producing stories featuring multiple doping specialists and doctors, breaking down these ratios, establishing the range of possible explanations, tracking the timeline of testing/administration, and coming to grips with Jones's movements.

Instead the media say 'let's wait and see'!!!! Like someone else is going to do the above work for them!!!!

Can you believe this shit!!!

 

[Doodles]

The fact that people are going after Bones but making excuses for Cormier is what lost this thing a lot of momentum. It shows the agenda of many posters.

I was convinced that Bones results looked fishy but the reasons given also apply to Cormier's test. "His wasn't quite as low" and "he's older" are lame excuses.

Go after both or leave them both alone or you're showing yourself to be a hater.

 

[suffersystem]

They def need to be keeping an eye on this and being aware of how to deal with this abnormality in the future, but until he fails a test he is still innocent.

I find it strange, everybody is ready to crucify JBJ with no actual proof, but yet were up at arms when Cung got unduly popped. His range is suspect yes, but I still have to give the benefit of the doubt until he is popped as well. Perhaps next fight test a bit more to be on the safe side?

 

[method115]

Close? You need to learn to math. lol

How is .35 not close to .4? It's .05 away if that's not close to you then what is close .39,.37?

 

[Mob69]

Having re-read this thread, a number of people are trying to shut down reasonable debate by shouting 'fighter bashing'!

We have multiple pieces of evidence here. We have a lack of clarity as to an explanation. One explanation, apparently quite feasible from the bloodwork, is the aftermath of PEDs.

It's not 'fighter bashing' to discuss this. It's not 'fighter bashing' for interested fans to talk about it. It's not 'fighter bashing' to bemoan the evident inadequacies of the MMA media (who, by the way, have been revealed by this episode to have the investigative competencies of a high school paper).

Shouting people down and trying to use forum rules against them is pathetic. It's reminiscent of how oppressive regimes use the law to suppress inconvenient facts.

 

[kflo]

It seems that MMA fandom and media alike have just gone into collective emotional lockdown on this score. It's crazy.

THE POUND-FOR-POUND BEST FIGHTER ON THE PLANET JUST PRODUCED NOT ONE, NOT TWO, BUT THREE ABNORMAL TEST RESULTS THAT MAY (OR MAY NOT) INDICATE THE AFTERMATH OF PED USAGE DUE TO HIS HORMONE LEVELS BEING SOMEHOW 'SUPPRESSED'.

Can you imagine if Usain Bolt produced three suspicious test results? There'd be none of this 'let's just wait and see' crap from the media. They would be digging into this, and they would be running stories from different endocrinologists and doping experts 24/7. That's even more important in this sport, given how nobody trusts the regulators to be remotely competent at their jobs. The media is being completely supine and acting as a propaganda arm for those who run the sport, in that their silence is deafening.

Luke Thomas actually mentioned 'character assassination' from those who seek to hold Jones to account. Other media have talked of how 'speculating' is bad. Again, can you imagine the media adopting a similar stance over Usain Bolt? They would be all up in it, digging into it rather than just serenely waiting for decrees to come down from Mount Sinai, i.e. the NSAC. Stories would be flying left and right trying to work out what these ratios mean.

I am utterly disgusted at the silence from the media. It seems they are too incompetent to be investigators - in which case they really shouldn't be classified as journalists.

You think the media has been thorough in their investigation of the success of the Jamaican sprint program?

Have you ever seen the results of a test that weren't an outright fail? Honest question. Have you ever seen the actual results of a test from other sports that were "questionable"?

 

[Perrichet]

they both scored low....

 

[Mob69]

The fact that people are going after Bones but making excuses for Cormier is what lost this thing a lot of momentum. It shows the agenda of many posters.

I was convinced that Bones results looked fishy but the reasons given also apply to Cormier's test. "His wasn't quite as low" and "he's older" are lame excuses.

Go after both or leave them both alone or you're showing yourself to be a hater.

Fair point. However some specialists have said that Cormier's are actually not problematic and Jones's are. Which is one reason (fan dislike of Jones being another) why JBJ gets nuclear heat on this.

And whilst many posters do have 'an agenda' here, no question, motives are irrelevant when it comes to debating evidence. The defence/prosecution in a criminal case have motives/agendas, but the evidence still has to be analysed. Academics have intellectual agendas but we still listen to their assessments. Thus, having an 'agenda' doesn't disqualify one from assessing evidence and scrutinising what it means.

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

The fact that people are going after Bones but making excuses for Cormier is what lost this thing a lot of momentum. It shows the agenda of many posters.

I was convinced that Bones results looked fishy but the reasons given also apply to Cormier's test. "His wasn't quite as low" and "he's older" are lame excuses.

Go after both or leave them both alone or you're showing yourself to be a hater.

You do understand that there was a HUGE differenc ebetween Cormier and Jones. Cormier had normal levels of Testosterone in both tests. Jones was basically close to zero in terms of testosterone levels and his lowest ratio was a 0.19. DC scored a 0.4 and 0.48. They are completely different. With the levels of testosterone that Jones had, he shouldn't have even been able to get out of bed.

At the end of the day, these experts coming out and saying everything is normal is a joke. As Dave Meltzer put it, it's like going to the doctors and your eyes are sore from staring into the sun and the doctor says that nothing is wrong.

 

[Mob69]

You think the media has been thorough in their investigation of the success of the Jamaican sprint program?

Have you ever seen the results of a test that weren't an outright fail? Honest question. Have you ever seen the actual results of a test from other sports that were "questionable"?

Question 1 - Fair point. The Jamaican programme is, errr, suspicious. But, so far as I know, Bolt hasn't produced multiple suspicious pieces of evidence in his bloodwork. Happy to be corrected if wrong.

Questions 2 and 3 - Fair question. Yes, I believe so.

 

[Blackened]

people cite the CIR test but Alistar's 14:1 ratio also didn't show anything in the CIR test so i would take that as meaningless.

The ratio isn't the real problem and over shadows the real problem which was the ng/dl amount of testosterone in his urine, in fact his ratio of .19:1 is his most normal of the 3 where he had 4.9 ng/dl in his system, his other tests was something like .89 ng/dl, then the other was 1.2 ng/dl, the ranges for males range 2.4 - 12 i believe, regardless he had the same amount of T as a female whose max range is 1.2 ng/dl, although one of the tests were apparently watery (assuming the .89).

Either way the issue is that Jones tests were low and inconsistent from one test to another, while DC's were in range and consistent from one test to another, the ratio's was what caught the eye of the media, but it's the ng/dl that needs to be explained.

But of course somehow everybody on sheepdog are occasional coke users, and since Jones does coke occasionally then it's cool and no big deal that his result show he doped.

I don't understand why CIR test is supposed to do anything either. Apparently they look for carbon 13 instead of carbon 12... but I'd assume (I have no experience doing this at all) carbon 12 can be used, and if not, some other isomer that has similar anabolic effects.

Not to mention the CIR test was a couple of weeks late to be effective.

No surprised NSAC didn't want to talk about it (their fuckup), no surprise the UFC didn't want to talk about it (their cash cow).

 

[Bones245n4847]

Jones nuthugger checking in, he got away with murder probably but he got away and that's what's important.

 

[Blackened]

You do understand that there was a HUGE differenc ebetween Cormier and Jones. Cormier had normal levels of Testosterone in both tests. Jones was basically close to zero in terms of testosterone levels and his lowest ratio was a 0.19. DC scored a 0.4 and 0.48. They are completely different. With the levels of testosterone that Jones had, he shouldn't have even been able to get out of bed.

At the end of the day, these experts coming out and saying everything is normal is a joke. As Dave Meltzer put it, it's like going to the doctors and your eyes are sore from staring into the sun and the doctor says that nothing is wrong.

Yes, I believe Jones' test was 6 times lower than it should have been (in one test)?

I don't know, I feel that nothing is going to be done.

 

[Sharingan]

Looks like that is where this is headed.

After Jones called a Gustafsson fan obscenities on Instagram and Jones released a statement that his phone was "stolen", followed by his manager saying his phone was "hacked". Sherdog basically shut down most of the other threads about Jones's behavior on Instagram.

This whole story will eventually be swept under the rug. We'll all know if his subsequent test-results all turn out to be low. Although the UFC is also removing out-of-competition testing to further bury this.

 

[Mob69]

Yes, I believe Jones' test was 6 times lower than it should have been (in one test)?

I don't know, I feel that nothing is going to be done.

Me too. The NSAC and UFC can probably safely disregard fans posting on forums. The failure of the media to do their job in the most basic fashion is ensuring that, innocent or guilty, nothing is going to happen re: Jones.

 

[Godzilla3232]

I take it this is the same kind of speculation as the whole "HE HAS BACNE; BAN HIM FOR LIFE!!" test the Sherdog endocrinologists use to determine whether or not a fighter is using PEDs?

It's so nice to finally be on a forum full of REAL experts.

 

[Mob69]

Looks like that is where this is headed.

After Jones called a Gustafsson fan obscenities on Instagram and Jones released a statement that his phone was "stolen", followed by his manager saying his phone was "hacked". Sherdog basically shut down most of the other threads about Jones's behavior on Instagram.

This whole story will eventually be swept under the rug. We'll all know if his subsequent test-results all turn out to be low. Although the UFC is also removing out-of-competition testing to further bury this.

Yes. Not good for inconvenient questions to be asked about their athletes through this testing.

 

[Blackened]

Yes. Not good for inconvenient questions to be asked about their athletes through this testing.

That's the most sickening thing about all of this. UFC discontinues drug testing program because of "Cung Le"... but that just doesn't make any fucking sense... especially since it was the day AFTER Jon tests positive.

 

[mudrubble]

Boycott reebok, send email to them. Boycott wada, send email to them. Boycott UFC, spam Dana and demand him to do something. Jones is evil+dui+eyepokes.

I know a guy who was going to do this, but instead he found something else to do with his free time.

I thought it was kinda neat.

 

[BomberMan]

Stop reaching TS. Only asshats interested in crucifiying the guy still keep harping on about that.

Get a life. ��

This. Jones haters are the biggest losers around.