The point with Goes is that he never reached full guard and therefore wasn't afford an opportunity to work from the bottom. The subject we were talking about was Coleman's level of submission defence, which he didn't get to show in that fight. As far as Don Frye goes, we must make the distinction between dominant position submissions and submissions from guard, which was largely lacking back then for HWs. You yourself point out that Barnett is a fantastic submission guy, but not off his back. DC is great at dictating the pace of a fight and I don't see Fedor being able to pressure him without getting wrapped up and taken down. You can't have it both ways: you can't point out DC's lack of proving submission defence and ignore the fact that Fedor really hasn't done shit off his back. I mean take Fedor in this hypothetical match up, that's fine with me, but when I start hearing about the submission prowess of guys like Don Frye and Igor Vov off their back, you're metaphorically taking your own argument and putting a bullet in it's head.