Snap Down alternatives when oponent keeps head low and hips away

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Anthas

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I've been looking around for a good alternative to the snap down for this situation. I know the snap down is a great move and I do use it, I just would love some alternative or complement for when my snap down fails (people at my gym know I'm going for it). Been using the fireman's with some success, mostly the no leg version kolat shows, but I know it's not considered a really safe option for submission grappling. Same happens with the drop soein nage and arm spin... I'm all about knee picks, and singles, so maybe use it as a setup for those? Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 
If you're all about knee picks and singles, I assume you use the underhook quite a bit. The reverse headlock is a really good option from an underhook vs. an opponent in a bent posture.
 
A snap down that doesn't result in you getting a front headlock is usually a great set up for just about any leg attack, in my experience. They typically react by snapping their head up in response, so if you time their reaction right you can shoot in effectively for doubles, singles, and yes a fireman's carry, which is fine for sub grappling. Just make sure to clear the arm/head for your shot.
 
Shemhazai said:
If you're all about knee picks and singles, I assume you use the underhook quite a bit. The reverse headlock is a really good option from an underhook vs. an opponent in a bent posture.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I do use the underhook as much as I can... Sometimes I end up with a pretty shallow one, do to my oponent putting his hips back. The reverse headlock is the same as the "chancery" that Tonon uses here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5481Tyc58

It's a good idea. I'm going to give it a try today. When they hide their legs from my knee pick they usually put their head down, so it should be an easy transition.

Normally, if I do get the underhook, I am able to start ataking, the problem is when I don't even get close enough for that.
 
SuperSuperRambo said:
A snap down that doesn't result in you getting a front headlock is usually a great set up for just about any leg attack, in my experience. They typically react by snapping their head up in response, so if you time their reaction right you can shoot in effectively for doubles, singles, and yes a fireman's carry, which is fine for sub grappling. Just make sure to clear the arm/head for your shot.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I usually do... I guess I just have to get better at it. Thanks!
 
Anthas said:
Thanks! I do use the underhook as much as I can... Sometimes I end up with a pretty shallow one, do to my oponent putting his hips back. The reverse headlock is the same as the "chancery" that Tonon uses here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5481Tyc58

It's a good idea. I'm going to give it a try today. When they hide their legs from my knee pick they usually put their head down, so it should be an easy transition.

Normally, if I do get the underhook, I am able to start ataking, the problem is when I don't even get close enough for that.
Click to expand...

No, the 'chancery' isn't quite what I'm talking about, but you can set it up from an attempted reverse headlock. Here you have the reverse headlock demonstrated vs. a more upright opponent:



If the guy circles to keep his base, you can either hit a regular headlock going the other way (if that's your thing), or snap him down into the chancery position. If he beats the snap-down attempt with posture, you can knee tap him as well.

As for getting the underhook in the first place, I'll sometimes go for the single in order to come up into the underhook when the guy whizzers, but that might be a backwards progression to you, depending on your game.
 


In the beginning of this video, you'll see Askren hitting the reverse headlock into a chancery position as the opponent rebounds.
 
if hes ducking his head, chin drag him.
 
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Shemhazai said:
No, the 'chancery' isn't quite what I'm talking about, but you can set it up from an attempted reverse headlock. Here you have the reverse headlock demonstrated vs. a more upright opponent:



If the guy circles to keep his base, you can either hit a regular headlock going the other way (if that's your thing), or snap him down into the chancery position. If he beats the snap-down attempt with posture, you can knee tap him as well.

As for getting the underhook in the first place, I'll sometimes go for the single in order to come up into the underhook when the guy whizzers, but that might be a backwards progression to you, depending on your game.
Click to expand...


Ok, I see what it is now... Didn't know about it. Very interesting!
 
Anthas said:
Ok, I see what it is now... Didn't know about it. Very interesting!
Click to expand...

It can be done in a few different ways, with slightly different head placement, hand placement and grips, but being on the receiving end of either variation should feel pretty miserable.
 
Shemhazai said:
It can be done in a few different ways, with slightly different head placement, hand placement and grips, but being on the receiving end of either variation should feel pretty miserable.
Click to expand...

And it also looks like the backtake would be harder for the oponent than from the regular headlock... It's weird I hadn't even heard about this takedown... Is it considered to be low percentage or rare?
 
quarter nelson, wizzer+crossface pancake
 
Anthas said:
And it also looks like the backtake would be harder for the oponent than from the regular headlock... It's weird I hadn't even heard about this takedown... Is it considered to be low percentage or rare?
Click to expand...

I think the conventional headlock is favored in wrestling
 
A couple of options just off the top of my head:

Front headlock (Shultz front headlock)
Ankle/knee pick
Arm drag
2 on 1 (Russian Arm Tie)

Of the above, I would probably just go for a front headlock since it's already there.
 
Snatch single. If they posture to avoid a snap down, then just snatch single. If they are staying in a good stance and you cant do either, you need to keep snapping them down.

Its basically the equivalent of asking what do do if your first smash pass doesnt work. Most the time you have to just keep doing it and changing the angle.
 
Dirty Holt said:
Snatch single. If they posture to avoid a snap down, then just snatch single. If they are staying in a good stance and you cant do either, you need to keep snapping them down.

Its basically the equivalent of asking what do do if your first smash pass doesnt work. Most the time you have to just keep doing it and changing the angle.
Click to expand...

That's a combo I'm working on. I'm really starting to appreciate the snatch single, specially for mma, where the opponent tends to be in a straighter posture. Been looking at videos of Cormier setting it up with punches. Thanks!
 
Grab their belt and get a collar grip with the other hand - Uchi Mata all day.
 
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