Skill level versus belt in comp

judoka loca

Training to eventually grapple a bear
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I'm aware that a Judo BB recieves a blue belt if they decide to start Brazilian jiu jitsu. Would a judo yellow belt be equal to a one stripe white belt, or how would all that work? This isn't "what skill level am I" per se, just in competitions, what would be the limit? Just curious about how the other grappling arts, specifically judo and wrestling, would fall into the skill brackets in a grappling competition like NAGA when compared to BJJ.

sincerely, a judoka who knows very little about BJJ entering his first grappling competition out of judo rules
 
I'm aware that a Judo BB recieves a blue belt if they decide to start Brazilian jiu jitsu. Would a judo yellow belt be equal to a one stripe white belt, or how would all that work? This isn't "what skill level am I" per se, just in competitions, what would be the limit? Just curious about how the other grappling arts, specifically judo and wrestling, would fall into the skill brackets in a grappling competition like NAGA when compared to BJJ.

sincerely, a judoka who knows very little about BJJ entering his first grappling competition out of judo rules

Judo rank doesn't automatically grant you BJJ rank. You could argue similar level of skill, but even then there are things blue belts will know that Judo BBs will not (there are common BJJ positions that basically don't exist in Judo, e.g. many open guards). If you have a lot of experience in another grappling style whether it's Judo, wrestling, Sambo, whatever, you'll most likely progress faster and you'll have no problem figuring out how to beat other white belts using whatever skill you already possess, but that doesn't mean you automatically get BJJ rank.

If you're competing no-gi under NAGA rules with a Judo BB, I'd say you should compete in the lowest or second lowest skill division. Wrestling is much more germane to no-gi than Judo, and if you entered an advanced division you'd just get guillotined or leg locked with a quickness because you'd have no idea how to deal with that stuff.
 
Stripes are just subjective. Many schools don't even use them.
 
The IBJJF says that Judo black belts cannot compete as white belts in IBJJF competitions - not that Judo BB should start at blue belt in BJJ, or that it is of equivalent skill level.

Lower level Judo belts really don't have much value, much like the first stripes in BJJ, all they really show is that the person knows the warmup and can breakfall / shrimp.

There is a lot of variance in skill level of Judo BB which makes it a poor measure in translating it to other arts. A Judo BB could have been training 4 years and just earned it, or could have been at BB for the last 20 years, could be a hobbyist or an Olympian.
 
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The IBJJF says that Judo black belts cannot compete as white belts in IBJJF competitions - not that Judo BB should start at blue belt in BJJ, or that it is of equivalent skill level.

Lower level Judo belts really don't have much value, much like the first stripes in BJJ, all they really show is that the person knows the warmup and can breakfall / shrimp.

There is a lot of variance in skill level of Judo BB which makes it a poor measure in translating it to other arts. A Judo BB could have been training 4 years and just earned it, or could have been at BB for the last 20 years, could be a hobbyist or an Olympian.

Yup, Rhadi Ferguson (judo Olympian, BJJ black belt who got to the ADCC finals) has commented on that. Some judo black belts couldn't compete against BJJ blue belts in BJJ according to him, others can hold their own against your average BJJ brown belt (though probably not against a competitive one unless they're something like Teddy Riner).

Judo black belt is too vague to say much, its like saying "BJJ'er above blue belt".
 
I really wish they would leave it up to personal choice. White is beginner, blue/purple is intermediate, brown/black is advanced. You are a destroyer who was a DI All American and youre a white belt, feel free to enter advanced. Only stipulation is you cant move down. Shitty old dudes who got a brown belt from some TMA guy cant just arbitrarily move down to beginner because they suck.
 
There's also a big difference between a Judo player with zero BJJ or no-gi experience, versus one of the same skill level but took some time to adapt.

It took me about 10 sessions before I could tap blues in BJJ, and I was a fish out of water going up against wrestlers. You could make Judo look really bad if you haven't crosstrained a bit to adapt what you know.
 
Yup, Rhadi Ferguson (judo Olympian, BJJ black belt who got to the ADCC finals) has commented on that. Some judo black belts couldn't compete against BJJ blue belts in BJJ according to him, others can hold their own against your average BJJ brown belt (though probably not against a competitive one unless they're something like Teddy Riner).

Judo black belt is too vague to say much, its like saying "BJJ'er above blue belt".

But isn't it strange that the proficiency is that spread apart when it's the same techniques and you have a black beltb One who has likely done his fair share of Newaza by that point
 
Clubs should promote fast to blue belt. If your skills or athletism makes you tap or dominate blue belts regularly, you should be promoted within 6 months, just to make sure that you have the Gi basics.

White belt comps should be the entry to the competition world, not a place for people to sandbag.

Blue belt is a jungle anyway, full of guys with loads of experience in no-gi, perenial blue belts, ex-wrestlers... I'm ok with them to sandbag there all they want, but leave the white belts alone.
 
But isn't it strange that the proficiency is that spread apart when it's the same techniques and you have a black beltb One who has likely done his fair share of Newaza by that point

Actually the range in throwing ability among judo black belts is even larger than the range of ne-waza among judo black belts. Why is this? Long story - here's the TLDR:

BJJ black belt means expert
Judo black belt means ready to be a student (ie have a good breakfall, can be thrown without being hurt).


But if you're bored, here's the reason.

For a start, consider physics. I use the same techniques as Einstein did. I have degrees in physics like EInstein did. Our proficiency (very sadly for me) is universes apart. Same is true for my guitar playing vs say Hendrix or Julian Bream - though we used the same techniques, and I've played a lot longer than Hendrix did.

Knowing a technique theoretically is different from being able to apply it under increasingly difficult conditions.

Its not just judo (or physics or guitar); how many BJJ black belts are as good as say Roger Gracie or Marcelo Garcia?

Beyond that, what does black belt mean? For Kano (an education prof at U of Tokyo), black belt meant you were ready to become a student (ie you had a break fall and some basic principles). That is why he made ten degrees of black belt - the first is like a grade one student, the tenth is a grade ten student (think education prof). Meaning, first degree black belt is a child who knows the basics of speaking and discipline, but can't read and write yet. Kano didn't come up with that btw, it was common in various Japanese arts long before him, he just applied it judo.

The 'expert' ranks in judo start in theory with the red and white paneled belts (6th degree and up), called the kohaku ranks. When judo came to the Americas (south and north), somehow that was lost, and people thought a first degree black belt meant expert (why have ten degrees of expert is a question that never occurred to anyone). BJJ took that impression, so for BJJ black belt means expert.

Then in judo itself the various degrees of black belt kind of became superfluous in most of the world (North America, Europe, Soviet Union) - ranking like that isn't really part of the culture. Wrestling, boxing, basketball - there are no ranks in western sports. So world champions wouldn't bother grading after the shodan, and you have first degree black belts who are world champion level, and first degree black belts who've only done kata, or taught, or just showed up regularly for years. Under Kano's system, the later would still be shodans (they have a break fall and basics), but the world champs would be high ranking black belts, but that's long since fallen apart.

In short if you're wearing a black belt in judo, I assume I can throw you hard without you hurting yourself when you land, nothing more. So yeah, there are going to be huge ranges in ability in black belt. BJJ changed the meaning of black belt from judo; nothing wrong with that, but you have to remember it means something very different in BJJ than in judo, and since judo used it first, it'd be silly for judo to change to the BJJ standard of black belt means expert.
 
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I am making a faux pas by wearing a white belt to BJJ? I went to a open mat which I've done sporadically over the last few years. I haven't been there for a while and several people made comments again how I shouldn't wear a white belt. Not bragging, I could pass for new purple at best which is no big deal and isn't all that much for nearly two decades of Judo. More like, they were annoyed either that I was sandbagging or that I didn't want to join a BJJ gym. So... am I a cheapskate sandbagging flake who won't join the club or should I just ignore?
 
They're just assuaging their egos, keep on wearing your belt until someone gives you another one.
 
I'm aware that a Judo BB recieves a blue belt if they decide to start Brazilian jiu jitsu. Would a judo yellow belt be equal to a one stripe white belt, or how would all that work?

That's only for IBJJF comps. I had 15 years of judo experience and didn't get an auto blue belt when I started bjj.

Also, no to the second question. A yellow belt in judo = white belt in bjj. Technically, n belt in judo = white belt in bjj...though certain belts will progress through ranks much faster (eg: a shodan may / should get blue belt faster than true grappling beginner).

For comps, I like the way DirtyHolt phrased it: have beginner / intermediate / advanced. Grappling is grappling but belts are style / school specific.
 
I am making a faux pas by wearing a white belt to BJJ? I went to a open mat which I've done sporadically over the last few years. I haven't been there for a while and several people made comments again how I shouldn't wear a white belt. Not bragging, I could pass for new purple at best which is no big deal and isn't all that much for nearly two decades of Judo. More like, they were annoyed either that I was sandbagging or that I didn't want to join a BJJ gym. So... am I a cheapskate sandbagging flake who won't join the club or should I just ignore?

No it is ok.


I went to a judo class and I wore a white belt.
 
The answer is so simple!

Always start as a white belt and let go of your former ego.

Roll with your chief instructor and the top belts of the club. Let someone who's trained in the system and competed under the BJJ rule set to asses your rank.

I couldn't be tapped by blue's and white's and could grind out long exhausting subs purples had to earn when I crosstrain for camps.

Depends on your effective skill in Judo in the past and where your BJJ school asses you at in the present. If you were a casual who moved up out of perseverance or a young turk Batsugan that will tell you something about your transition.
 
I could usuall tell the difference between a fighting shodan and kata/coach/ref shodan as soon as we gripped up.

I said usually, not recognizing the fighter made for some comical, highlight level sky-mile ippons.....
 
I am making a faux pas by wearing a white belt to BJJ? I went to a open mat which I've done sporadically over the last few years. I haven't been there for a while and several people made comments again how I shouldn't wear a white belt. Not bragging, I could pass for new purple at best which is no big deal and isn't all that much for nearly two decades of Judo. More like, they were annoyed either that I was sandbagging or that I didn't want to join a BJJ gym. So... am I a cheapskate sandbagging flake who won't join the club or should I just ignore?

Wearing a white belt is better than wearing your black belt.
 
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