Side Mount Crucifix/"Salaverry" Position

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by lethalazn, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. lethalazn

    lethalazn Purple Belt

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    preferably behind you, with both hooks sunk in
    It seems like a TKO is almost always coming soon as soon as soon as the fight goes into that position (whether or not the punches actually hurt.) A few memorable MMA fights have been finished from the Salaverry/Crucifix position

    - Matt Hughes vs BJ Penn
    - Roy Nelson vs Kimbo (not great but about everyone has seen it)
    - Jon Jones vs Vladmir Matyushenko

    I have a few questions about it
    - Is there any good instructional on controlling it or escaping it?
    - Is it a good position to look for in Sub Grappling? Or is it just really good for MMA?
    - Is it strictly a big/strong guy thing or does the position work well for little guys (going against bigger dudes) as well?
     
  2. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    As far as sub grappling goes, Marcelo teaches a pass into this position against an opponent trying to get to deep half from regular half guard. From the front crucifix, he capitalizes on the arms being unable to protect the neck, and sets up the North-South choke.

    On a more obvious note, it's a nice position to set up an inverted triangle from.
     
  3. Noskill

    Noskill Created Monkey

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    Another fight in which the side mount crucifix was used to good effect is Kimbo vs. Thompson. Thompson came awfully close to finish Kimbo there. I guess the referee did not stop the match because Thompson's punches didn't seem to do much damage.

    As Shemhazai has noted, the inverted triangle is a VERY GOOD option from there. Step you head-side leg over his head, face his legs, pull on the arm between your legs and close the triangle. You can either finish by squeezing your legs, or attack the other arm with americana/straight armbars or kimuras.

    Some speculation:

    When I think about the crucifix from side mount, I wonder if a simple rape choke/forearm choke could be the highest percentage finish from there. In MMA, the punches don't seem to do that much damage, however undefensible they might be.

    Or again, chinstrap and neck crank (if that's your thing), or chinstrap and go for a one-handed guillotine (no idea if that would work). In gi, circle around the head, get the collar and loop choke. Or paper cutter?

    As for escapes, I have no clue besides the obvious "Free one of your arms".
     
  4. BSFT

    BSFT Brown Belt

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    i agree, the punches arent' super powerful, depending on your range of motion, but the elbows, Jones style, are wicked. I usually go for hammer fists, but if the guy can get his face turned and under the leg, you can't do much since you'll hit the back of the head.

    that crank from there is a good finish, if you're in an event/situation that allows for neck cranks.
     
  5. lethalazn

    lethalazn Purple Belt

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    preferably behind you, with both hooks sunk in
    another question:

    What's the reasoning behind differently fighters pounding differently from the position? Some GnP are so bad the ref doesn't bother stopping it (James Thompson), others are just enough for the ref to stop it even though we can question the amount of damage done (Roy Nelson) while others are just downright brutal (Jon Jones). I can understand why different fighters pound differently from guard (more aggressive=more openings to be subbed/swept) but I don't understand why everyone who gets that position doesn't try to do what Jones did since it's already so dominant. Does it tire you out that much faster? Do you sacrifice base when you wind up for that elbow? lack of explosiveness on the fighter's part?
     
  6. KJGould

    KJGould Silver Belt

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  7. KJGould

    KJGould Silver Belt

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    Thompson wasn't allowed to use elbows because of Strikeforce policy.

    In the case of Nelson, there's more padding for the punches. With elbows there is none, and Jones was hitting the temple repeatedly. I don't recall Nelson hitting the temple on TUF. Same ref though, Herb Dean. Maybe Kimbo was being given more of a chance because he's more valuable, maybe Matyushenko wasn't to make Jones look more devastating and help his hype.
     

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