Side Cage clinching should not be scored until something significant happens

[theTKDguy]

I think any strikes to the feet/ankles/shins/knees should be illegal, meaning those low kicks better hit the calf muscle or you could lose a point. That would make someone think twice about spamming leg kicks to rack up points when you could lose a point for hitting the wrong part of the leg.

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[Paladin]

If 2 fights are pressed up against the side of the cage, and both are throwing little footsie stomps and shoulder bumps, and nothing significant is being attempt like a takedown, a sub attempt, or even a significant strike, that entire portion of the round should be scored as a draw or should not be scored at all.

I dont see how that is more advantageous for the initiating fighter when he cant do anything because the moment he tries to throw a significant strike or go for a takedown he will lose the position....thats not a area that should be scored for either fighter unless one of those things i mentioned above happens.

Using example from last night Masvidal vs Usman

Usman had Masvidal pressed up the cage in the 2nd round for about 4 minutes...throwing nothing but shoulder bumps and foot stomps....after the clinch broke up, Masvidal threw like 5-10 strikes in a rapid fire burst before the round ended... that round should be scored for Masvidal.... nothing else significant happened....the clinch is not a dominant position the way that Usman was using it, im not talking about Mui Thai plums and judo throws, none of that was even attempt....if a fighter wants to stall against the cage because he is playing the point game, that should be much harder to do then it is now.

again, im not talking about wrestling, im not talking about bjj, im simply talking about the stalling position that Masvidal and Usman were in pressed up against the cage doing literally nothing, that needs to be separated a lot sooner and it should not count for almost any points if any at all as its not an advantageous position that generated any offense.

If you were not seeing Usman DIGGING hard blows to Masvidal in the clinch, you are biased, simple as that. Fight could have been more exciting if they stood toe to toe, but do you blame us man for grappling hard after that scorching start by masvidal.

MásVidal did not gas due to the grappling, but due to the multiple body shots that Usman landed. Hard, full powered body shots all night.

I bet on masvidal, but still recognize that kamarudeen put in serious body work on masvidal.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Masvidal will never not cruise unless he is kicking the shit out of you.

Exactly. 100%.

 

[Booksmasher]

NEVER score:

-Wall&Stall
-Lay&Pray
-Harmless strikes
-Octagon Control
-Aggression
-Takedown
-Obtaining a position

 

[Paladin]

People give shit to Ropes in pride but it made wall and stalling a lot harder to do. A lot of it is on Masvidal however and his inability to stop running back to the cage and or do anything at all. Dude was passive in a fucking title fight. Masvidal will never not cruise unless he is kicking the shit out of you.

Yeah, I hate the burst of energy that he showed In the last 30 seconds. where was that aggression all night? He let another man press him and literally step on his toes all night and did nothing.
Romero did the burst of energy at 4:40 of round 5 vs Izzy, and had the nerve to do push ups to show He had energy.. I was done with Yoel at that point.

Bring that energy all night instead of the last few seconds.

 

[Young Joe]

Any form of stalling should not be rewarded. It's simple.

 

[DrTrouble]

Agreed. Wall n Stall is NOT Wrestling. It's not BJJ. It's not grappling. It's not a Martial Art.

It's boring but I recall Randy Couture and GSP winning a bunch of fights like that.

 

[KID Yamamoto]

Yeah, I hate the burst of energy that he showed In the last 30 seconds. where was that aggression all night? He let another man press him and literally step on his toes all night and did nothing.
Romero did the burst of energy at 4:40 of round 5 vs Izzy, and had the nerve to do push ups to show He had energy.. I was done with Yoel at that point.

Bring that energy all night instead of the last few seconds.

Its just a bad habit of ATT guys.
Lawler in the Hendricks rematch which he barely scraped a win in did the same thing. Sat on the wall and was passive for a good amount of exchanges. This only changed when he left btw.
Yoel barely threw anything in the Whittaker rematch outside of the shots he dropped rob with and he let Costa walk him down for 2 rounds wailing on him. Izzy fight isn't even something I should mention
Masvidal I don't need to say anything. People should actually watch his fights.

Dustin is the only guy who never stops putting in work even if its just tapping jabs or teeps. But even he runs to the cage when pressured, even against fucking KHABIB.
Oh Woodley was ATT for a lot of his fights too lmfao. Add him to the list of doing everything I said.

Exactly. 100%.

it's insufferable.

 

[Alpha_T83]

I agree. Holding someone against the cage and trading insignificant strikes doesn't score anything. It's stupid that it counts.

If Masdival lands 5 good punches and gets hugged for 4 minutes and 30 seconds, then he won the round. He did more damage.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

If 2 fights are pressed up against the side of the cage, and both are throwing little footsie stomps and shoulder bumps, and nothing significant is being attempt like a takedown, a sub attempt, or even a significant strike, that entire portion of the round should be scored as a draw or should not be scored at all.

I dont see how that is more advantageous for the initiating fighter when he cant do anything because the moment he tries to throw a significant strike or go for a takedown he will lose the position....thats not a area that should be scored for either fighter unless one of those things i mentioned above happens.

Using example from last night Masvidal vs Usman

Usman had Masvidal pressed up the cage in the 2nd round for about 4 minutes...throwing nothing but shoulder bumps and foot stomps....after the clinch broke up, Masvidal threw like 5-10 strikes in a rapid fire burst before the round ended... that round should be scored for Masvidal.... nothing else significant happened....the clinch is not a dominant position the way that Usman was using it, im not talking about Mui Thai plums and judo throws, none of that was even attempt....if a fighter wants to stall against the cage because he is playing the point game, that should be much harder to do then it is now.

again, im not talking about wrestling, im not talking about bjj, im simply talking about the stalling position that Masvidal and Usman were in pressed up against the cage doing literally nothing, that needs to be separated a lot sooner and it should not count for almost any points if any at all as its not an advantageous position that generated any offense.

Agreed. The clinch should be considered an absolutely neutral position. Being in the clinch, whether you initiated it, or or holding the other guy to the fence, should be worth exactly nothing to the judges. The dirty boxing or what you do there is what should count. Same thing with full guard.

 

[JimmyFresno]

Wall n Stall for a prolonged period should result in being carded. Would that fight between Usman and Masvidal look different in a ring versus a cage? I think so.

I'd also like kicks, stomps, and knees to a downed opponent.

Dry humping your opponent/Wall n Stall is avoiding the fight. If nothing meaningful is happening from the position, it should be broken up, just like on the ground.

 

[Bob Sapp]

They should be separated after 30 seconds then restarted in the center of the cage.

I support this. If theres minimal damage or nothing happening they should be seperated after a certain amount of time.

 

[Deleted member 510653]

I don't like it either but YOU GOT TO BE ABLE TO STOP IT.

If you can't do that, the other guy is imposing his will and winning.

If you want the championship, being physically stronger might have to be a thing the next challenger takes into consideration.

It's going to have to be someone just as big and tough as Usman is to nullify this issue. Colby could have done better but he's not a relatively big ww and Usman's a big one. Time for some guys to eat their Wheaties and train in advance for this type of scenario.

This is one of those cases where you have to go in there and bully the bully and if that doesn't happen Usman's gonna be in there for a white. Just that simple man.

 

[Maori]

Mas was in over his head and drowned, imagine if Mas added a td to his game, or trained to be more dominant in the clinch?

the fact is offensively Jorge is a great mma striker and thats about it

 

[Gmork]

If 2 fights are pressed up against the side of the cage, and both are throwing little footsie stomps and shoulder bumps, and nothing significant is being attempt

Are you trying to argue that body punches aren't significant? Because Kamaru landed like eight million punches to the body, and I promise you Jorge felt them.

 

[Deleted member 579771]

Yeah i didnt want to go that far cuz i know "change" scares people and all the kids start crying. But this wall and stall shit is getting out of control now. Fighters are trying to actually win fights by not fighting, its why we are starting to see the "kicking meta" where apparently every fighter has "lethal Aldo kicks", they are winning fights just from that alone.... Look at Izzy vs Romero... kicks won over punches...Same in Max vs Volk....

Usman is winning rounds from shoulder bumps and toe stomps.... like 1 hook that lands should even that round out....as it would be the most damage done and the most significant moment of that round....

The sport has been so stagnant for too long.. you look at NFL/MLB/NBA its always changing(sometimes for the worst) but not doing anything is just dumb...and these types of fights i dont think are good for the sport, i think it encourages more stalling over fighting... and it should be the other way around.

Agression should become the most important factor. Start to give wins to aggressive fighters and nobody will run like Izzy. and the word control should be forgotten. only punches and takedowns should be scored.

 

[Deleted member 579771]

Kamaru Usman's coach is a genius. He crafted a style that capitalizes on the loopholes of the current rule system. There's absolutely no fighting style more efficient on exploiting the deficiency of the structure of the fight world than Kamaru Usman's.

Of course, you cannot just be ANYBODY to have a style like Kamaru. You have to be quite big and have tremendous cardio - they are requirements. Once you accomplish these two requisites, all you have to do is hug your opponent against the cage and stomp on their feet and perform shoulder shrugs just so that they fight is not separated. Not only are your strikes being counted on your favor despite having ZERO damage output, but you will never lose a single fight (as long as you are big, strong, and have tremendous cardio; this way, you have the ability and advantage to do so in the first place).

You will always win this way, and never be at risk, regardless of doing nothing.

This revolutionary style will hereby be named "STALL-CLINCH." Goodbye forever, Thai clinch.

Kamaru's weight cutter is a genius. He wins purely by mass.

 

[Deleted member 579771]

NEVER score:

-Wall&Stall
-Lay&Pray
-Harmless strikes
-Octagon Control
-Aggression
-Takedown
-Obtaining a position

why not score takedown. They are more impressive and entertaining and harder to do than simple punch.

 

[Greta Thunberg]

Are you trying to argue that body punches aren't significant? Because Kamaru landed like eight million punches to the body, and I promise you Jorge felt them.

He must've missed all those. He said Usman did nothing in the 2nd besides a few shoulder strikes and foot
stomps when he actually landed like 20 mean body punches and other stuff too. Now apparenty he's left his
own thread.

 

[TomTomNT]

why not score takedown. They are more impressive and entertaining and harder to do than simple punch.

because a takedown is just a transition from standing to going to the ground... Do you score it a takedown when a bjj guy pulls guard for the purpose of it becoming better for him to be on the floor? or will you give points to the guy who is on top sitting in the guys guard just because "hes on top"? Its what you do with that takedown that should score points... are you landing from full guard? are you transitioning from full guard into half guard? or side control? are you attempting sub attempts? or GnP? Those things what should count... not the takedown itself....

Yes that would be harder to convince than what im talking about, but in a perfect world thats how i would score it, i think that is a lot more balanced system then the one we got currently.