Opinion Shouldn't the education system produce young adults that are ideal for society?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by squeezewax, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. nostradumbass

    nostradumbass Gold Belt

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    How much are you willing to bet? My gf is sitting 8 feet from me right now and is from the soviet union. Her parents are both retired doctors and have a household income of $1800/year, her sister moved here and is also a doctor made $630,000 last year.
     
  2. nostradumbass

    nostradumbass Gold Belt

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    <Huh2>

    Oh shit, why didn't anybody think of that? Those dumb turkies just had to start a business and they'd get rich and stop having to spend all their free time waiting in line for basic necessities.
     
  3. Jack V Savage

    Jack V Savage Secretary of Keepin' It Real/Nicest Guy on Sherdog

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    Er, that's not a real complaint. Liberalism is just the political arm of science, while conservatives value other forms of conviction (revelation, intuition, authority, etc.). That's since the beginning of both liberalism and conservatism, but it applies still. Made this post in another thread:

    "I think it's clear that just having a commitment to accuracy will make you unacceptable to the right in America. Imagine someone saying:

    1. Evolution is real, and the Earth is ~4.5 billion years old.
    2. Human activity is causing climate change.
    3. Regressive tax cuts increase deficits and don't noticeably affect economic growth.
    4. Immigration has a positive impact on native wages and reduces crime.

    You'd assume that they're on the "left" and fume about them even though those are all objectively true statements that even someone who is ideologically on the right would have to admit if they looked into it and were honest about what the evidence said.

    Relating it to this thread, telling the truth about the evidence about Biden's actions or Trump's actions would similarly anger right-wingers and have them assume that you're on the left."

    LOL! Again, the left has been the side of science since there has been a left. You're confusing rejection of junk science with rejection of real science. I could have made that list much longer. The right essentially rejects all of economics (even you were peddling Austrianism before you became obsessed with HBD stuff--another junk science, BTW), biology, anthropology, geology, and more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  4. dissectingaorticaneurysm

    dissectingaorticaneurysm Night King Top Team

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    Something worth noting is that the far right in Europe agree with the first three here. The American right is spectacularly stupid by global standards, though Brazil and the Philippines might have us beat there.
     
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  5. Jack V Savage

    Jack V Savage Secretary of Keepin' It Real/Nicest Guy on Sherdog

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    OK. Not sure how it is in every country. The right (and center) in a lot of Europe was supporting contractionary fiscal and monetary policy in response to the GFC, which was spectacularly stupid and indefensible on scientific grounds. The right in America was doing that, too, though they had less power to make it happen (they were able to slow the recovery, but not prevent one). I'd also note that the immigration situation is different in different countries (some countries may legitimately have problems related to immigration, though America's immigration problem is that we don't have enough). The right in many other countries is more OK with UHC, too.
     
  6. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Good post and reflects my personal frustration. The left/right divide used to say "Those 4 things are true but we have different ideas on what government should do with the information." Now the left/right divide is about if those things are true at all.

    We're not even getting to intelligent policy because the right, and I hate to admit that, has transitioned to disagreeing on fact, not just on policy.
     
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  7. grimballer

    grimballer Silver Belt

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    It’s a 1st world problem

    ppl have it too good here so they have this guilt trip n complain about nonsense
     
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  8. HeffDoesWant

    HeffDoesWant Blue Belt

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    My ex soviet block wife is 4 feet from me.

    Have you asked her parents if they would have made just as much if they were gardeners instead of doctors? Aka did studying improve their position in life?
     
  9. nostradumbass

    nostradumbass Gold Belt

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    <Huh2>

    Her grandfather was a farmer and got his farm stolen and was sent to a gulag in siberia when Joseph Stalin tried to starve the entire country of Ukraine to death.
     
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  10. djacobox372

    djacobox372 Gold Belt

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    Some simple facts:

    Old people always complain about young people

    Powerful people always complain about smart people

    Colleges are full of young and smart people, so they are a threat to the old an powerful. So don't believe all the disparagement, there's a motive behind it.
     
  11. BForrester

    BForrester Brown Belt

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    Are those family and friends writing or directing your posts? If not, I similarly fail to see how their qualifications, real or imagined...this is the internet and you very may well be (probably are) full of shit...are relevant to your writings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  12. BForrester

    BForrester Brown Belt

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    The evangelical support for Trump absolutely mystifies me, particularly. What I find humorous is how some on the extreme fringes of the religious right liked to draw parallels between Obama and the antichrist, where Trump much more closely resembles the biblical description.
     
  13. BForrester

    BForrester Brown Belt

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    If he was really that uninterested in reading what you have to say;
    A. He wouldn't respond, thus keeping the dialogue with you going.
    B. He would simply add you to his "Ignore" list, effectively muting you.
     
  14. MicroBrew

    MicroBrew Steel Belt

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    "Shouldn't the education system produce young adults that are ideal for society?"

    Sounds fascist / Orwellian. It's something one expects of China and Islamic countries, and Asia where social harmony overrides the rights of individuals.

    One of the best things about the West and what really sets the West apart from the MidEast and Asia is that we value individual freedom over communal harmony.
     
  15. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    How come none of my friends who teach think "our schools are doing fine?"

    I kind of think you're barking up the wrong tree. In my mothers time, religion was still ingrained in the educational system. Lots of people were upset when religion started being purged from the schools and honestly, I haven't seen an improvement in the following generations. I think parents expect the opposite from their kids schools. I think they do expect a certain level of propriety and morality to be instilled in schools but isn't it natural that you'd want it to coincide with what you believe as well? Who gets to make the call? Thats the problem.

    This feels like a chicken or egg argument. Is our society a reflection of our educational system or vice versa. I think the latter.
     
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  16. Lint2

    Lint2 jmp dword ptr [ebp+8] Platinum Member

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    2 and 4 are badly wrong, they're far from being a fact.

    2. To expect that a scientist whose the main income stems from climate change "studies", will honestly conclude that we don't know how much heat earth dissipates and therefore can't be certain about human impact over AND SO seek out other job since there'll be no more money over climate change science it is as unlikely as a canadian admitting that GSP was full of PEDs just because it's the honest thing to do. People never do that.

    We're asking priests whether should we believe in the bible and then taking their word as facts.

    4. The thing with immigration never was political, illegal immigrants form a group almost entirely of democrats, all that economy talk is just a scapegoat to expel people who were not allowed to live in US... The other paradigm being: Live in US, get citizenship, vote democrat.

    The 1st one also bothers me (atheist here), but then they're just lunatic fans of christianism, democrats have their own herd as well that believe Venezuela is a democratic state and stuff <- I'm not trying to compensate, it's just that there will always be people not interested into thinking the whole world's political scenario and will promptly accept their parents or friends opinion.
     
  17. Bloody Pulp

    Bloody Pulp Gold Belt

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  18. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I don't know why the small subset of teaching friends you have don't think schools are doing fine when it comes to teaching morality. Have you asked that specific question or are you equating their general opinion on how schools are with that much more limited question? My teacher friends have mixed opinions on teaching morality/ethics in the classroom although they all think it's important that the kids get some education in that space.

    My point is that parents say they want ethics and morality until the principles end up supporting things that the parents themselves do not support. But that's a reflection on how the parents don't actually support the principles, not a problem with schools themselves.

    So, they'll say "Yes, teach the principle of religious freedom!" Then the teacher starts teaching about how religions like Islam deserve to be treated equally to Christianity. Then those parents will say "Stop teaching that." They don't say "Stop teaching the principle," they say stop teaching the principle in the purest sense. Teach it with the biases that the parents have.

    Well, there's no way to teach these principles with the parents biases in mind. Often the principles support positions that the parents don't agree with, not just the ones they agree with. THe blame belongs with the parents, not the school.

    To use a more inflammatory example, imagine that short period immediately post-slavery America. The schools start teaching that black kids are the same as white kids. But the parents who don't believe that demand that the school stop "indoctrinating" their kids. Well, who's to blame there? The parents.

    They don't want their kids to learning the purest form of the morals or ethics. They want their kids learning their parents' biases. Well, that's fine but they have to acknowledge that they're going to be holding society back because they're too selfish to think big picture. See, every household has its own biases.

    If the school cannot present a universal place to eliminate those biases with the uncorrupted form of the principles then the society can only further fragment.
     
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  19. RetiredSlave

    RetiredSlave Black Belt

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    Ideal is subjective.
     
  20. Jkillah

    Jkillah Blue Belt

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    "Young adults who are ready for society" is such an arbitrary metric. Education should have tangible goals with testable proficiency in skills that matter. It shouldn't be a touchy feely character building exercise. Nothing will build character like hard work or having someone depend on you. You will learn much more about being ready for society when you land your first job than you will in the class room. The class room setting isn't as well equipped for that and it will be filtered through the lens of one person.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019

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