Shoulder position

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by DevilMMA, Aug 21, 2010.

  1. DevilMMA

    DevilMMA Orange Belt

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    This is another area where I have noticed a lot of differences in opinion...... where are your shoulders lined up at the start of a DL or PC.

    There are those that say for a DL the bar has to behind the shoulders (over the scapula) and those that say that on a DL the shoulders should be slightly behind the bar.

    Likewise for the PC (or any Oly lift for that matter) .... those that say the bar should be behind the shoulders (over the scapula) and those that say the bar should be in line or even slightly in front of the shoulders.

    Its weird...... from talking to people and watching vids there appears to be all kinds of thoughts and perspectives. I lift some decent poundages myself and Ive tried to go through the scientific rationale for both....... its a real doozy!

    Care to add any thoughts??
     
  2. MatterOverMind

    MatterOverMind Pulling for you

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    This is a terrible way to deadlift.

    A great position for back squats though.
     
  3. DevilMMA

    DevilMMA Orange Belt

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    I like a good debate.....

     
  4. MatterOverMind

    MatterOverMind Pulling for you

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    Lulz... I'm fucking with you.

    The bar should be under your scapulae. If it's over, you're doing it wrong.
     
  5. XTrainer

    XTrainer Red Belt

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    It's not a question of technique, it's a question of physics. You can't break a heavy bar off the ground with your arms doing anything other than hanging vertically, roughly in line with the scapulae. You can try to pull with the shoulders farther behind or in front of the bar. All that means is that your body (or, sometimes the bar, if you roll it) will shift before/as the bar comes off the floor--that is to say, your body will move to put the bar beneath the scapulae before or as the actual lift begins.

    It would take an actual muscular contraction to make the bar deviate from the positioning described above. You would literally have to raise (away from you) or pull (toward you) the bar. This is completely unfeasible with anything near deadlift or power clean weight.
     
  6. DevilMMA

    DevilMMA Orange Belt

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    But surely if your arms are hanging vertically, then by definition they are not in line with the scapula but with the shoulders??
     
  7. MASShole

    MASShole Get it?

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    What do you think is part of your shoulder? The shoulder blade.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. DevilMMA

    DevilMMA Orange Belt

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    Thank you Mr Wiseass.... Im aware of that.

    Ask someone to point to your shoulder and then to your shoulder blade.... they will point to seperate locations.
     
  9. MASShole

    MASShole Get it?

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    Right, but a joint needs multiple stabilizing bones to be considered a joint (for the most part). Your shoulder blade is part of that, so pointing to your shoulder is also pointing to your shoulder blade.
     
  10. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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    You guys are jackasses. Xtrainer's answer is obvious. How else do you expect to do it?
     
  11. ronin0352

    ronin0352 Lift, Eat, Sleep, Repeat

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    Exactly. TS, do this. Take a sub-maximal weight and DL it to about your knees & stop. See where it's hanging. That's where it should be positioned in relation to your shoulders. Set up that way and you won't have to ask this question.
     
  12. DevilMMA

    DevilMMA Orange Belt

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    Oh do shut up FFS you penis....

    Havng the bar under your shoulder or delts or whatever the fuck you want to call them is not the same as having a bar positioned under your scapula.
     
  13. DevilMMA

    DevilMMA Orange Belt

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    I think youre misunderstanding...... this isnt a thread about HOW I DEADLIFT.

    This is a thread geared towards a general debate on the subject.....








    Quite clearly the world of lifting is not in agreement....
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  14. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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    I think you are confused.. When you pull you want to pull backward but it is clear in the tate video that the guy is setting up exactly how rip describes the setup should be.

    And tate is using the traps as a cue vs rip using the scapula as a cue.

    edit: which are both parts of the shoulders.
     
  15. DevilMMA

    DevilMMA Orange Belt

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    Sorry uploading the wrong vid... corrected.

    The way Tate and Rip talk about the start position of the deadlift are not the same.
     
  16. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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    Look at the demonstrations in the tate vid. The scapula is directly above the bar every time..
     
  17. DevilMMA

    DevilMMA Orange Belt

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    Tate quite clearly says....

    "the key to the deadlift is to keep the shoulders behind the bar."
     
  18. MatterOverMind

    MatterOverMind Pulling for you

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    The only way you can deadlift with your shoulders completely behind the bar would be to use your shins to stop the bar from coming underneath your shoulders. You are then adding resistance to the bar and putting yourself in a mechanically disadvantageous position. Why would you want to do that?

    So just shut the fuck up and lift.
     
  19. DevilMMA

    DevilMMA Orange Belt

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    Hey honeybuns calm the fuck down....

    I am merely quoting what a highly respected coach has said..... for the last time I am not stating my own opinion. That Tate and Rip seem to disagree is from my perspective interesting....

    I am showing that there are differences in opinion on this important topic and encouraging debate amongst the forum....... simple enough for you?
     
  20. MatterOverMind

    MatterOverMind Pulling for you

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    Christ, you're fucking retarded.

    Read this.

     

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