Should you be a specific rank to learn Berimbolo ?

Shemhazai said:
Can you please explain why the berimbolo movement has no relevance outside sport BJJ? I see people (including you) whining about this all the time, but I have yet to hear the argument for why inverting from DLR doesn't give powerful leverage in a real fight, or how 'top berimbolo' is such an awesome and stable position from which to deliver strikes ...
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So you're going to tell me that if you get into a street fight and get knocked down your first instinct will be to go to DLR so you can berimbolo to the back? I'm pretty sure if you hit the ground they're not just gonna jump on top of you...chances are higher that they'll kick you. If you can catch a DLR hook from being kicked, then you sir are the Anderson Silva of the ground. Also if you did get that dlr hook in, before you can reach up to grab my belt/pants/whatever I'm gonna do my damndest to stomp the hell out of your face.

Inverting is never a good idea outside of sport jiu jitsu.
 
Pretty sure i saw shinya aoki using a variation of the de la riva in a pride/dreams fight.

I cant believe how close minded some people are. They ultimately believe that de la rive = berimbolo = inverting = death. There is so much more to it.

It's like a couple of years when people were bashing deep half guard to death because they are saying how easy it is to get punched in the face. But yet you see minotauro and wilson reis using it consistently (Wilson has a nice version where you WONT get your face bashed in)

It's also like 10 years ago when people thought half guard is "half-passed" you and you should stick to full guard.

It's like 15 years ago when people thought that using leg-locks was not manly or something.

It's also like 10 years ago when people thought that kungfu was the shit and that wrestling is pretty gay.

See where im going with this?
 
Balto said:
The berimbolo is like sex. If you have to ask people if you're old enough to do it, you're not old enough yet.
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Lmao.... It can go Harmoniously right :icon_lol: or Terribly Terribly WRONG!!!! :icon_sad:
 
TheHereticJay said:
So you're going to tell me that if you get into a street fight and get knocked down your first instinct will be to go to DLR so you can berimbolo to the back?
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No, my first instinct will probably be a tripod sweep if he gets close to my legs with his, but in a real life altercation you just act instinctively on whatever grips you happen to get in position for (as opposed to trying to lure your opponent into your 'money move'), so if my attacker puts himself in position for DLR by turning his knee inward or whatever, I will probably try take his back with the deep DLR hook right away. The chances of him reacting appropriately for the berimbolo (i.e. not just letting me maneuver to his back) are pretty slim vs. a non-grappler, but if he does fall down on his ass due to shitty balance, there is absolutely no reason why I couldn't invert to attack, in which case I'd probably prefer to come up for the sweep to mount as opposed to rolling through, though I'm sure the latter would work fine.

Not saying I personally wouldn't just single leg him and scramble to the top if the above reaction happened, but to say that going inverted doesn't work just because it's inverted, is nonsensical.

TheHereticJay said:
I'm pretty sure if you hit the ground they're not just gonna jump on top of you...chances are higher that they'll kick you. If you can catch a DLR hook from being kicked, then you sir are the Anderson Silva of the ground. Also if you did get that dlr hook in, before you can reach up to grab my belt/pants/whatever I'm gonna do my damndest to stomp the hell out of your face.

Inverting is never a good idea outside of sport jiu jitsu.
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You're just arguing that ANY form of guard play is difficult in a striking/stomping scenario. This is hardly news. If you think DLR is impossible to set up in a NHB environment, though, I can inform you that it was originally used in vale tudo, where stomps were quite common. It turns out that the stomp isn't a panacea that negates everything, and it's not common even for VT fighters to be doing it 100 % of the time with both legs. The average Joe attacker in a self defense scenario may not even think of doing it right away, if at all - for all we know, maybe he's the punching/throttling type.

Furthermore, I don't understand how you would be stomping/kicking anyone who has successfully established DLR guard on you, since your near leg is controlled, your far leg can be blocked with the pushing foot, and trying to kick with it (in a direction opposite that in which your body is turned by the DLR hook) would probably just make you lose your balance.

I just don't see why it would be easier to punch someone's head in when they're upside-down (with their head hidden behind their legs and hips), and in the case of the berimbolo, off to the outside while controlling your legs and fucking with your base and balance, than when they are just lying on their back in any other generic guard position. The only reasoning seems to be that inverted = sport BJJ/looks gay = can't be done in MMA.
 
mmmm... I think that eventhough there are tons of white belts right now that are capable of performing berimbolos at the perfection (see mendes bros students) I dont think its a good thing they are doing it it... not only in competition, but even at the gym... they should be more focus on other stuff, even if they are only aiming to sport bjj... I dont know, I dont think its right, but I dont think there a way to prevent it either...
 
Shemhazai said:
No, my first instinct will probably be a tripod sweep if he gets close to my legs with his, but in a real life altercation you just act instinctively on whatever grips you happen to get in position for (as opposed to trying to lure your opponent into your 'money move'), so if my attacker puts himself in position for DLR by turning his knee inward or whatever, I will probably try take his back with the deep DLR hook right away. The chances of him reacting appropriately for the berimbolo (i.e. not just letting me maneuver to his back) are pretty slim vs. a non-grappler, but if he does fall down on his ass due to shitty balance, there is absolutely no reason why I couldn't invert to attack, in which case I'd probably prefer to come up for the sweep to mount as opposed to rolling through, though I'm sure the latter would work fine.

Not saying I personally wouldn't just single leg him and scramble to the top if the above reaction happened, but to say that going inverted doesn't work just because it's inverted, is nonsensical.



You're just arguing that ANY form of guard play is difficult in a striking/stomping scenario. This is hardly news. If you think DLR is impossible to set up in a NHB environment, though, I can inform you that it was originally used in vale tudo, where stomps were quite common. It turns out that the stomp isn't a panacea that negates everything, and it's not common even for VT fighters to be doing it 100 % of the time with both legs. The average Joe attacker in a self defense scenario may not even think of doing it right away, if at all - for all we know, maybe he's the punching/throttling type.

Furthermore, I don't understand how you would be stomping/kicking anyone who has successfully established DLR guard on you, since your near leg is controlled, your far leg can be blocked with the pushing foot, and trying to kick with it (in a direction opposite that in which your body is turned by the DLR hook) would probably just make you lose your balance.

I just don't see why it would be easier to punch someone's head in when they're upside-down (with their head hidden behind their legs and hips), and in the case of the berimbolo, off to the outside while controlling your legs and fucking with your base and balance, than when they are just lying on their back in any other generic guard position. The only reasoning seems to be that inverted = sport BJJ/looks gay = can't be done in MMA.
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I also think inverted and other moder bjj guards can be succesfully used in MMA, I dont know NHB scenario though, soccer kicks are just way too dangerous, but in MMA, I think in the future we will be seeing much more...
 
BJJ_Rage said:
mmmm... I think that eventhough there are tons of white belts right now that are capable of performing berimbolos at the perfection (see mendes bros students) I dont think its a good thing they are doing it it... not only in competition, but even at the gym... they should be more focus on other stuff, even if they are only aiming to sport bjj... I dont know, I dont think its right, but I dont think there a way to prevent it either...
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If BJJ is about position first, shouldn't a really high percentage sweep be more "fundamental" than, say, submission chains from the guard?
 
I would say whenever.

You're only going to be able to nail your first berimbolo once your technique is ok so it's practice when you continually fail.

You're going to need good DLR hook and distance control - a non-shitty open guard - grip control - hip movement - inversion - leg drag - back take.

You'll either keep trying till you develop enough of the skills to a basic level to get it or get bored and try other techniques.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
I also think inverted and other moder bjj guards can be succesfully used in MMA, I dont know NHB scenario though, soccer kicks are just way too dangerous, but in MMA, I think in the future we will be seeing much more...
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Obviously, bottom position of any kind is never a good thing in NHB/self defense, or even in MMA. We're talking about what can work if you end up there, not pulling guard to berimbolo. :)
 
Shemhazai said:
Obviously, bottom position of any kind is never a good thing in NHB/self defense, or even in MMA. We're talking about what can work if you end up there, not pulling guard to berimbolo. :)
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laying flat on your back playing open guard is way safer than going inverted when soccer kicks are allow... but yeah I see your point, I guess no one is pulling inverted, you are talking about going inverted as a quick transition...
 
BJJ_Rage said:
laying flat on your back playing open guard is way safer than going inverted when soccer kicks are allow... but yeah I see your point, I guess no one is pulling inverted, you are talking about going inverted as a quick transition...
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As a quick transition, sure but more so in a position where you have control over the opponent. Watch Marcin Held's last fight in Bellator. He was hanging out in tornado guard for a long time, but his opponent didn't have any great striking options because his posture was broken, his arms were occupied and there were sweep and submission threats all over the place. Maybe a Pride style knee to the head would have been possible, but it would have meant greatly compromising base.

Also, laying flat on your back in open guard is not safe at all if you don't have any grips, IMO. And even if being flat on your back is better, nobody is calling the sitting guard vs. a standing opponent a 'cancer', though that's probably even more dangerous in NHB than going inverted.
 
Shemhazai said:
As a quick transition, sure but more so in a position where you have control over the opponent. Watch Marcin Held's last fight in Bellator. He was hanging out in tornado guard for a long time, but his opponent didn't have any great striking options because his posture was broken, his arms were occupied and there were sweep and submission threats all over the place. Maybe a Pride style knee to the head would have been possible, but it would have meant greatly compromising base.

Also, laying flat on your back in open guard is not safe at all if you don't have any grips, IMO. And even if being flat on your back is better, nobody is calling the sitting guard vs. a standing opponent a 'cancer', though that's probably even more dangerous in NHB than going inverted.
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I dont see why not... not easy to soccer kick anything but the legs, you can manage the distance with your own legs...

Marcin is what im talking about, but remember that was MMA, not a NHB, although, he even if it was a NHB fight, there was hardly anything the other dude couldve have done differently...
 
If you understand how DLR guard works you can learn the berimbolo.

It's hardly the killer move people think it is. But it destroys people with shitty posture.

By the way, I heard a rumor that the IBJJF is thinking about making the berimbolo illegal because it "puts pressure on the knee." Anyone else heard this? Are they trying to phase out DLR guard altogether or what?
 
redaxe said:
If you understand how DLR guard works you can learn the berimbolo.

By the way, I heard a rumor that the IBJJF is thinking about making the berimbolo illegal because it "puts pressure on the knee." Anyone else heard this? Are they trying to phase out DLR guard altogether or what?
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you have to go be shitting me.... although, I got trapped in my opponents DLR yesterday, I think he was going for a berimbolo, we were fighting, but at some point I thought, hmmm, I kind of think my knee is trapped, It was a weird position, I thought about just tapping and telling him that my knee was compromised, I decided not though, and nothing happened...
 
redaxe said:
By the way, I heard a rumor that the IBJJF is thinking about making the berimbolo illegal because it "puts pressure on the knee." Anyone else heard this? Are they trying to phase out DLR guard altogether or what?
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Through what channels did you hear this?
 
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