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Should we assume Canelo beats whoever he is scheduled to fight.

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by revoltub, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. cocksure

    cocksure Silver Belt

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    Sadly, this seems to be the case. They had him up 6-1 ffs, which is diabolical. He's a bull and rarely gets hurt, so this bs could continue for a while. I'll pass on his fights from here, will watch him get KOd on instagram when it eventually happens.
     
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  2. deucesarewild

    deucesarewild Blue Belt

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    I can see why you feel this way. Everything has been designed in his favour (included his encouraged clenbuterol usage by WBC now) so it's kind of--in a very distant way-- like the foregone conclusion of professional wrestling matches.
     
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  3. Absolut

    Absolut Red Belt

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    I love the canelo narrative. It’s become cool to say scorecards corrupt. Fight fixed.
     
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  4. borntoloseNOT

    borntoloseNOT Brown Belt

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    It's the most hilarious thing ever. "Canelo has the judges in his pocket, they always score rounds for him while he masterfully boxes his opponent's ears off, and damn him for having amazing defense and chin, now we cant even see him knocked out because the judges always score the rounds he actually wins for him, I'm gonna wait for him to get kod on Instagram"

    Wow wow wow. This is the human race. Terrifying.
     
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  5. borntoloseNOT

    borntoloseNOT Brown Belt

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    Ya'll can stop ragging on Carl Froch for being a flat earther, the new version of flat earther is Canelo haterers.
     
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  6. No Mas

    No Mas Blue Belt

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    Look, this is the problem, and I have been pretty vocal about this even before GGG 2, and the Kovalev fights. The problem is not any single one scorecard, we all know how awful CJ Ross is, how awful Adelaide Byrd has been etc. This does not only happen to Canelo, it happens to everyone. But while it does, we can not just look at any single one fight, and because you can justify that outcome, it means that everything is fine and dandy. We need to look at the big picture.

    Let me preface by saying that I have been around the early days of online poker and sportsbetting and advantage gambling. But whenever a big scandal is uncovered, i.e. the basketball point shading incident, bets that make sites limit sharps, ultimatebet/potripper scandal, botting in poker, and now the Postle cheating incident, etc. what the ultimate evidence ends up being is how far this behavior deviates from the norm. You analyze the data and see how much of an outlier each case is and whether it's within the realm of statistically probable when gathered together. Of course the logistics behind these processes and how they work can get pretty complicated, but this is how it is in a nutshell. It's not any isolated incident that proves anything, but the accumulation of all of them.

    It's the same with Canelo, it's not any individual scorecard/fight that indicates anything shady, but it's all of the instances grouped together where the behavior deviates substantially imo. And it hasn't even been that many yet, but ever since GGG 1, it has happened twice more with GGG 2 and Kovalev. That's 3 dubious scores in 5 fights! Sure, you can pretend the scorecards didn't matter in the last one but of course they matter to anyone with half a brain, because you can extrapolate and see where this pattern is headed. Was there anything wrong with these scores in isolation? No not really, Canelo 6-4 ivs. Kovalev is a bit iffy but a case can be made for it; a MD over GGG is probably a fine score too given that it was such a close fight. But you can notice there is a trend here, a trend to give Canelo close rounds. If he fights aggressive and throws and misses more while getting countered more effectively, he wins a SD vs. Lara, but if he fights more akin to Lara vs. Kovalev, where he counters more accurately but has significantly less volume he also would win. Dave Moretti was scoring in both fights and he had Canelo ahead in each!

    People know it's true that there is a Canelo bias, even the extreme fanboys will likely admit that. I have been alluding to this on the forums for a long time too, even before the GGG fights. Of course, it's still early and the sample size is pretty small, but you can all see where it is heading, especially with the direction DAZN seems to be going in.

    My point is just how hard it is for anyone going forward to beat Canelo given how much he must outclass him to win the decision. It's something that will be nearly impossible given how good Canelo is. I just hate this blatant favoritism, and I actually like Canelo as a boxer. But now it's getting to be so egregious that it's disgusting, especially with the network backing. It's just going to keep happening and everyone is going to sing the same tune "it's a close fight so Canelo gets it" as it happens over and over again, and that just seems crazy to me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  7. cocksure

    cocksure Silver Belt

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    Way too even handed and sensible my friend. If you disagree with a decision on here, you're an idiot or should just accept it. It's the fake news era, nobody is accountable for anything.
     
  8. cocksure

    cocksure Silver Belt

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    If you think so many people question the judging because it's cool, I think you need look beyond the surface of a shallow pool.
    Ever wonder why the UFC is kicking boxings arse?
     
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  9. Absolut

    Absolut Red Belt

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    cause it’s this years skinny jeans? Certainly not because it doesn’t have its share of shit decisions, shit stoppages,champs on roids, moving main events to a different city at the last minute to skirt testing- fucking it’s fans who booked the original site, champs fighting suspect challengers etc.
     
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  10. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    But what if I don't agree with you about how egregious some of those decisions were? Golovkin/Canelo 1 could have gone either way. Really depends on what you like.
    I'll say what I always say about the Lara fight. It wasn't very close. You don't win fights fighting the way Lara fought in that one and we all know it. I think you're looking for a way to score against Canelo if you have Lara winning that one. Just my opinion.
    I've seen Canelo in 2 fights that I thought had clownish scores. Golovkin/Canelo 1 which was a drawish fight IMO that ended up being a draw and Floyd/Canelo, a fight he lost. He hasn't benefited from those scorecards at all. Its just a thing that shitty fans latch on to in order to ruin the fight for everyone else. "Duh, fuck boxing, I probably won't even watch this. His opponent is going to win and if he doesn't its because corruption. If he wins by decision the judges are in his pocket and if he wins by KO he's on the meat. I don't even care what really happens in the fight. I didn't agree with a scorecard one time so I will never allow Canelo any merit for any fight he wins, ever."
     
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  11. No Mas

    No Mas Blue Belt

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    Again, I am not saying any one decision was egregious. The only 3 really off things so far have been: CJ Ross draw, Adelaide Byrd 118-110, and Moretti giving Canelo 6 of the first 7 rounds.

    What I am saying is the cumulation of all these cards/decisions together is. You can argue that these 3 scorecards did not impact any decisions so far, okay fine, but they could very well have.

    My point has always been that going forward we will just see more and more of this; it’s not even just the individual cards anymore, it’s the network favoritism as well that can even be seen in the DAZN commentary now.
     
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  12. cocksure

    cocksure Silver Belt

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    All that is true but there's no fighter where you think, without a KO or sub he or she has this in the bag.
     
  13. cocksure

    cocksure Silver Belt

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    Shitty fans lol agree with @Seano or you're a shitty fan. Grow up.
     
  14. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    I will say that if you don't enjoy the sport because of a scorecard, then you're a shitty fan. Yes.
     
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  15. Mad Dollar

    Mad Dollar Blue Belt

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    Canelo will go down in history as one of the greats, dude will probably not loose in the next 5-6 years, and win a lot more world titles during he’s career !
     
  16. cocksure

    cocksure Silver Belt

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    You must be joking, there's nothing more deflating than watching a fighter get stiffed.
     
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  17. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    I won't lose sleep over it.
     
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  18. benebox

    benebox Brown Belt

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    Perfectly said, although you are wasting your time. Canelo could win another 10 close fights where the census is he lost and you will still get the same argument because it doesn't fit the 'close fight can't be debated' narrative no matter how mathematically improbable it is. Obviously, this has nothing to do with Canelo so I won't hold it against him, all he can do is take on the best challenges to keep me as a fan and I'll use this information to my advantage by freely betting on Canelo decisions if I think the fight will go the distance.
     
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  19. minemax

    minemax White Belt

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    Do you think Yarde would want to fight "before the Ward" version of Kovalev? :) Yarde's team saw the same things that Canelo's one did.
     
  20. listrahtes

    listrahtes Brown Belt

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    I advice anyone putting this into conspiracy nonsense to read Up a little closer about Adelaide Byrd & her husband. She is corrupt as one can be and sells her services worldwide. Dont focus on Canelo but just her and especially look how she scores not only the result.

    Canelo is just bigger than the sport now. Kind of in Mayweather territory with Mayweather treatment. A great boxer no question. I love his style.
     

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