Should school kids be grouped by mental ability?

[Bay Area]

Should there be advanced and slow classes? And if so, what does this do to the self esteem of the slow kids?

Growing up, all of the stupid kids were in one class, while the smarter kids (like myself) were in another class.
We would all be sitting in the same class for the first hour, and then the smart kids (like myself) would leave and go to a different class room.

When I say slow kids, I'm not talking about retarded kids. Just slow.

Any parents care to respond?

Discuss

 

[AznTrojan]

isn't that what AP and honors classes are for?

 

[Aegon Spengler]

It's tough to gauge intelligence vs performance

 

[minute bull]

Muggles on the left. Mentals on the right. Everyone else in the middle.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

I was in the nerd maths class at high school, come at me.

 

[koolinkunming]

Reminds me of Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.

 

[GSP_37]

Of course. No point in letting the dumbshits and loudmouths drag everyone down. Just give them advance placement into garbage man skills because you know they ain't going to college.

 

[ehtheist]

So, what happens in neighborhoods where there are a bunch of rich white kids with supportive parents, tutors, etc, are matched up beside a bunch of single-parent, ghetto dwelling black kids, and the classes end up with a 1970's South African look to them?...

 

[JSN]

Obviously.

One thing they used to do with the smart kids when I was young that was estupid though was move us up a grade for classes. You skip some dummy stuff, but then you're in a class with dummies a grade ahead. They should just have classes for smart kids and retards and that's that.

 

[snakedafunky]

We have that in Germany. Its a bit different from state to state but in most states it goes like first 4 years all kids learn together.
And than its separated into: "dummy", middle, smart completely different schools not just a different class.

Obviously I went straight to the "dummy" school . But you still have option to change to the smart school after 10th grade.
I changed to the smart school after years 10 so you are behind a bit but still possible. And ended up going to college. I just wasn't mature enough after 4th grade to realized I have to learn or at least I would like to think so.
Most people from the "dummy" school start an apprenticeship after grade 10, that is also not a bad option. Because after 4 years of apprenticeship you can also go to university or do other stuff. I know lots of people that went to the "dummy" school but ended up being very good in there field of work later on.

 

[genecop]

This is a very complex subject..Slow, Fast, Smart, Dumb...it should only be that simple. The categories are far from black and white..for example during grade school I was in accelarated classes, then in High school I was relegated to the rubber room ( as they called it) ..The rubber room for me was more about behaviour and boredom .....I think many of the "slow " students simply suffer from not being understood, and not fitting into the stamped out curriculum..I would rather see challenging students worked with to try and find out what interests them so that the school system can accommodate their needs ...

 

[JSN]

We have that in Germany. Its a bit different from state to state but in most states it goes like first 4 years all kids learn together.
And than its separated into: "dummy", middle, smart completely different schools not just a different class.

Obviously I went straight to the "dummy" school . But you still have option to change to the smart school after 10th grade.
I changed to the smart school after years 10 so you are behind a bit but still possible. And ended up going to college. I just wasn't mature enough after 4th grade to realized I have to learn or at least I would like to think so.
Most people from the "dummy" school start an apprenticeship after grade 10, that is also not a bad option. Because after 4 years of apprenticeship you can also go to university or do other stuff. I know lots of people that went to the "dummy" school but ended up being very good in there field of work later on.

*their, dummy

JK I have heard that about jerryland. Haha it seems extreme because it seems like kids are being pegged as laborers from the age of like ten, and here in die USA that is considered like the worst thing ever.

 

[genecop]

That being said , if a child is truly learning disabled, they should have special help based on the degree of their disability..maybe just additional after school help in some cases...in more extreme cases yes, an entirely separate curriculum....

 

[ButtonMasher]

Of course. No point in letting the dumbshits and loudmouths drag everyone down. Just give them advance placement into garbage man skills because you know they ain't going to college.

And coincidentally the garbage men are making more money than the college graduates.

 

[europe1]

The problem with separating kids after intelligence is that people tend to gauge themselves after their surroundings. Removing high-achievers from "middle" or "lower" classes tend to have the effect of lowering the performances among the middle and lower class people. They adjust themselves after the best they see, if the highest they see is rather average, they only really strive for that (it is the "roof" so to say). However, if there are smart people around, a new loftiness of intelligence is opened for them, and while they may not reached that level themselves, they will at least strive to adjust themselves to that reality, improving themselves by at least trying to close the distance between themselves and the smarter kids. Not to mention the trickle-down effect that smart students tend to have, pollinating the others with intelligence just by their sayings and statements and such.

It's a theme of study in pedagogy.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

So, what happens in neighborhoods where there are a bunch of rich white kids with supportive parents, tutors, etc, are matched up beside a bunch of single-parent, ghetto dwelling black kids, and the classes end up with a 1970's South African look to them?...

So, you think all black people are stupid? That black parents do not support their children. What size hood do you wear? Could you be more racist?

 

[JSN]

The problem with separating kids after intelligence is that people tend to gauge themselves after their surroundings. Removing high-achievers from "middle" or "lower" classes tend to have the effect of lowering the performances among the middle and lower class people. They adjust themselves after the best they see, if the highest they see is rather average, they only really strive for that (it is the "roof" so to say). However, if there are smart people around, a new loftiness of intelligence is opened for them, and while they may not reached that level themselves, they will at least strive to adjust themselves to that reality, improving themselves by at least trying to close the distance between themselves and the smarter kids. Not to mention the trickle-down effect that smart students tend to have, pollinating the others with intelligence just by their sayings and statements and such.

It's a theme of study in pedagogy.

seems like in real life all the dummies are just like, "hey everybody, this guy reads! Whup his ass, yo'!"

 

[ehtheist]

So, you think all black people are stupid? That black parents do not support their children. What size hood do you wear? Could you be more racist?

Absolutely not, nor did I imply the things you're wildly, and inaccurately, accusing. Actually, I fully expect precisely the reverse to happen as well with a bunch of white trailer trash occupying the stupid classroom while a bunch of well supported black kids will be riding the long bus to school. The difference between this and the reverse? No-one will give a crap when it's white kids in the dumb classroom and black kids are in the smart one.

It is a simple truth of the Americas that there are some pretty downtrodden black neighborhoods - white too, but again, who gives a rat's arse about poor white people in the context of the OP? The issue arises when you have a school where there is a meeting of an upper class white neighborhood and a lower class black neighborhood - and suddenly you've got a "stupid" classroom full of black faces and the "smart" classroom full of white faces. All of the sudden, this isn't just some isolated, coincidental event - it's a cel phone photo that will go viral. Al Sharpton is there to talk about how his people are discriminated against. People are questioning if the teachers are racist, CNN has opinion pieces on "systemic racism in America" and so on and so forth and you'll be seeing facebook feeds like Occupy Democrats spamming that screen cap of the largely black "stupid" class and the largely white "smart" class all over social media. All of the sudden something that is just a quirk of how different economic neighborhoods feed into some school becomes an image of aggressive systemic racism, even though the reverse is happening elsewhere.

Now, if you can get off your soap box for a second and discuss this like a rational person, do you see the problem I was hinting at? You'll see this go both ways, with schools where poor and rich neighborhoods meet, but it'll suddenly become an issue when the stupid class is full of black faces and the smart class is full of white.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

Absolutely not, nor did I imply the things you're wildly, and inaccurately, accusing. Actually, I fully expect precisely the reverse to happen as well with a bunch of white trailer trash occupying the stupid classroom while a bunch of well supported black kids will be riding the long bus to school. The difference between this and the reverse? No-one will give a crap when it's white kids in the dumb classroom and black kids are in the smart one.

It is a simple truth of the Americas that there are some pretty downtrodden black neighborhoods - white too, but again, who gives a rat's arse about poor white people in the context of the OP? The issue arises when you have a school where there is a meeting of an upper class white neighborhood and a lower class black neighborhood - and suddenly you've got a "stupid" classroom full of black faces and the "smart" classroom full of white faces. All of the sudden, this isn't just some isolated, coincidental event - it's a cel phone photo that will go viral. Al Sharpton is there to talk about how his people are discriminated against. People are questioning if the teachers are racist, CNN has opinion pieces on "systemic racism in America" and so on and so forth and you'll be seeing facebook feeds like Occupy Democrats spamming that screen cap of the largely black "stupid" class and the largely white "smart" class all over social media. All of the sudden something that is just a quirk of how different economic neighborhoods feed into some school becomes an image of aggressive systemic racism, even though the reverse is happening elsewhere.

Now, if you can get off your soap box for a second and discuss this like a rational person, do you see the problem I was hinting at? You'll see this go both ways, with schools where poor and rich neighborhoods meet, but it'll suddenly become an issue when the stupid class is full of black faces and the smart class is full of white.

Lol, you just spew bullshit. You are fucking racist and I called your shit. It was plain in your post. I grew up owning 2 pairs of fucking jeans and lived in a town that had actual dirt fucking roads and my parents were supportive as in if I failed a class I was punished. But I still made it to AP Biology and physics.

You can blab all your dumb bullshit, but you got exposed. Deal with it.
"Can't separate classes by intelligence because all the black kids will be in the dumb classes, but I am not racist" - you

Lol, I bet some of your best friends are black.

 

[Seano]

Probably.

My daughter and a few of her friends are a bit more advanced than most of her class but they have to sit through the most basic shit over and over because most of the other kids in her class are stupid.