Should no gi grappling include other forms of submissions?

Doing finger locks would increase injury rate, while limiting ability and skill. It doesnt take much talent or ability to twist a finger till it breaks. There is no positional, or athletic dominance neccesary to do so.. and its also not going to end a fight like other submissions.

Wrist locks are fine - though i dont like em. There is not enough time to tap on wrist locks a lot of the time. They are good when applied by someone with care. but can easily cripple someone if the sub is unknown.

Pressure points are BS and are not going to get someone into a position where they go unconcious, break a bone, or are unable to continue a fight..
 
does a tight kesa count as pressure point?

If you mean bullshit that wont work on a skilled grappler of equal size then yes it does. Kesa is a nice position to inflict discomfort, but tapping to it is more panic than necessary to prevent harm, unless there is a MASSIVE skill/size disparity, much like pressure points.
 
The problem with finger or small joint manipulation is how do you really defend it? Grab back?

Even though combat sports do have roots in self defence and some people base fights on how "it works on the street" it's a sport and some liberties have to be taken to get the masses in. I for one don't want to see people engaged in a finger bending war.
 
Tapout by wretched fart submissions surely would kick the game up a notch.
 
Well if you think about it, grappling is on some level supposed to simulate a fighting scenario (loosely), and in a real fight breaking someone's finger isn't going to put an end to it. Every other submission in the book could potentially end a real fight, or at least severely handicap your opponent (armbar), but small joints are really just a pain move.

I guess this is obvious. But I doubt many guys will want to train or compete in, and not many governmental bodies will sanction, a grappling match that allows breakage of fingers/toes, eye gouging, etc. That's why this sort of sport doesn't in fact try to simulate a real fight.
 
What - in a society where sueing someone for such totally stupid things they're going to allow those submissions which will increase the chance of injury?

More likely the type/amount of submissions able to be used will DECREASE - or there will be more rules limiting existing submissions.
 
Does knee to the belly count as a pressure point move? I have seen guys who are dead tired tap out to a knee to the belly. I have seen sweeps from guard where a guy does an over under and the other hand is thrust inside the armpit. Does this help in the sweep? I don't know never tried it but looks like move involves a pressure point under the armpit? Some might consider that dirty grappling.
 
Competitive grappling is not supposed to resemble a real fight at all; it's competition. There are points and time limits. Self-defense would be more like a "real fight".

So true.

Why is there any mention to a "street" scenario? We can all agree that pulling guard or butt-scooting would be a bad strategy for a street fight. So why not automatically disqualify someone for pulling guard? On balance, I prefer to be able to pull guard then be able to use the Indian burn as a sub...
 
Off topic but is a gi allowed instead of the typical rash guard in no gi grappling? And if its allowed could you use your belt as a weapon?
 
If pressure points don't work so well then please explain to me why soooo many people release or loosen thier guard when you drive your elbows into thier inner thighs.

Pressure points work well to loosen tight grips (hands,arms,feet legs) but will very rarely submit a person loaded with adrenaline.

I do know some pressure points that do worrk almost everytime. Facelocks! Very effective.
 
If pressure points don't work so well then please explain to me why soooo many people release or loosen thier guard when you drive your elbows into thier inner thighs.

Pressure points work well to loosen tight grips (hands,arms,feet legs) but will very rarely submit a person loaded with adrenaline.

I do know some pressure points that do worrk almost everytime. Facelocks! Very effective.

Noobs loosen or release their guards when you press into their thigh. It doesn't work on most others with any amount of experience... Unless you're like 50 pounds bigger than the other person. In that case, you're just a bully and not a training partner. Pressure points usually just annoy me.
 
Off topic but is a gi allowed instead of the typical rash guard in no gi grappling? And if its allowed could you use your belt as a weapon?

You wouldn't want to wear a gi if your opponent isn't wearing one - it gives him all the advantages. And in most gi based sports that I've heard of (BJJ, judo and sambo) you're allowed to use the belt as a handle, sometimes as a tool (to tie up arms other than the one you're putting the lock on), but never as a weapon in the sense of using it as a noose around the person's neck, or as a whip etc.
 
You wouldn't want to wear a gi if your opponent isn't wearing one - it gives him all the advantages. And in most gi based sports that I've heard of (BJJ, judo and sambo) you're allowed to use the belt as a handle, sometimes as a tool (to tie up arms other than the one you're putting the lock on), but never as a weapon in the sense of using it as a noose around the person's neck, or as a whip etc.

Maybe true but in Pride Hideko Yoshida seems to always wear a gi against his opponents and for the most part he beats them. I take it he is the exception but I would like to know if others find it as an avantage to use against somebody who doesn't use it.
 
Eddie Bravo wears gi pants and he's a huge advocate of No-Gi. The Gi game is all about wrist control and the collar.
Someone told me in some no-gi tourneys any thing you wear can be used against you. Like, if you wear ear guards, your opponent can use the straps to control your head easier.

Laughed my ass off at the idea of using a belt as a whip. Who would give you that much space?? I have heard you can choke people with it. Why not? Its there.
 
It's not real submission wrestling without eyegouging and checking the oil.
 
Just wanted to find out if you guys think that someday submission grappling (No gi) or BJJ would eventually allow wristlocks, finger joint manipulation or even pressure point submissions if there is such a term i.e (under the arm pit, behind the ear/jaw pressure point etc).. I mean it was not too long ago that footlocks and spinal cranks were not allowed in competition. Are there any other forms of submissions you think would be included in submission grappling someday? Would love to hear what you guys have to say.

most of this stuff is legal...
 
Noobs loosen or release their guards when you press into their thigh. It doesn't work on most others with any amount of experience... Unless you're like 50 pounds bigger than the other person. In that case, you're just a bully and not a training partner. Pressure points usually just annoy me.

and open up submissions for me. I love it when people go for pressure points like 90% of the time.

the only time they can be beneficial is if you're in a dominant position and you're using them to open up a REAL submission.
 
Noobs loosen or release their guards when you press into their thigh. It doesn't work on most others with any amount of experience... Unless you're like 50 pounds bigger than the other person. In that case, you're just a bully and not a training partner. Pressure points usually just annoy me.

Agreed. The old elbows in the legs only works on less experienced guys. I chuckle when people try it real hard. Then just pull the legs and hips up a bit and watch em fly forward.


Also: the use of the belt for submissions, i.e. using it to strangle, is DEFINITELY illegal in all tournaments.
 
A friend of mine just competed in a tournament and was warned by the referee for doing a ful nelson on his opponent and was told to let go. He told me he held the move briefly to probably try and transition to something else Im not sure. I believe he competed in a gi competition. Are ful nelson or even half nelson legal in gi or no gi competitons?
 
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