Should MMA Guys Train Like Powerlifters?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Big H, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. Big H

    Big H Blue Belt

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    Just a question. Cos MMA guys lift weights to get stronger right.

    But a lot of people do things like bench press with a huge arch, which limits the range of motion, and with a big leg drive that takes away from the triceps/chest, isn't the point of bench press to increase strength in the chest and triceps? Wouldn't it be in an MMA guys interest to utilise full range of motion? Whereas a powerlifter has it in his best interest to increase his numbers.

    I know there is no MMA specific lifts just lifts to get strong, but why would an MMA guy for example choose wide stance squats just breaking parallel over ATG squats? I'm just imagining a scenario where a kind of deep squat position arises in a fight/grappling (e.g. some take-downs you dip very low), wouldn't it be better to have that strength at the bottom deep squatting gives you?

    Discuss
     
  2. KILL KILL

    KILL KILL Gold Belt

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    periodization. look it up.
     
  3. Big H

    Big H Blue Belt

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    I know what that is, and that is not what I'm addressing.

    If you read the 1st post u will understand I am talking about the execution of exercises.
     
  4. BrassBalls

    BrassBalls Banned Banned

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    No. A powerlifter is all about numbers, but for a fighter, this is just a good supplement to have that is part of a much bigger picture.

    Using excessive arch while benching, probably not, but learning to keep your body tight and how to press correctly is good. As far as the ass2grass vs breaking parellel, take a vid of you doing lowbar breaking parallel and doing highbar a2g. You will probably notice that you don't break parallel much more in the a2g squat due to your legs being closer together. As far as which would have more athletic carry over, I am not sure. I would think the most important thing would be to learn how to squat properly so you don't hurt yourself.
     
  5. KILL KILL

    KILL KILL Gold Belt

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    eh sorry I only read the title. use proper on bench and do deep squats
     
  6. ssdd

    ssdd Purple Belt

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    It doesn't really matter though because making progress with any given technique is still getting stronger. I've actually never seen anyone recommend wide stance squats or sumo DL for sports and non powerlifters.
     
  7. enright3060

    enright3060 Brown Belt

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    This thread is based on a silly straw man.

    If a mma fighter trained only like a powerlifter, he would be training for powerlifting.

    A figher, just like any other athlete, should train for strength and utilize the powerlifts (as well as other lifts) as one component of his or her training.

    Think how silly the thread would sound if you said that if a football player squatted, he was training for powerlifting. Actually, he was squatting in order to get stronger so he can be a better football player.
     
  8. Big H

    Big H Blue Belt

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    Im not saying should an athlete use the powerlifts, I am saying should they perform them in the same way that many powerlifters do, e.g. the bench press with lots of leg drive and huge arch, and even less ROM with super wide grip etc

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Big H

    Big H Blue Belt

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    I think the difference is a few inches but im GUESSING thts enough to hit the glutes/hamstrings much more hence why its so much harder.

    i guess we would have to compare to vertical jumps of oly lifters and powerlifters or something to see which would have more athletic carry over.
     
  10. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    The addition of leg drive does not mean the subtraction of force produced by the upperbody. And are you anywhere near having an arch that big? I'm thinking no, since even people who have powerlifted for years don't usually have arches nearly that big. So why worry about it?

    As for low bar squats vs. high bar: for some people the difference is incredibly small, not enough to worry about. For others there's a signifcant difference, in which case, if the difference in weight used/ROM/muscles emphasized matters to you, do which ever you think will benefit you the most, or do both.
     
  11. Searcher

    Searcher Yellow Belt

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    It doesn't matter if you squat pl style or oly style. What matters is you get stronger. If you take your oly squat up 200lbs you will be stronger than before. If you take your pl style up 200lbs you will be stronger than before. If you start cutting depth but still add 200lbs, you won't be as strong as those who stayed with one style.
     
  12. Searcher

    Searcher Yellow Belt

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    Since I can't edit, here's the bench take: arch is thought to be safer. If you take your arched bench up 100lbs, you are stronger. If you change your non arched bench up 100lbs, you will be stronger. More leg drive means more weight, but that still means if you up the weight and maintain consistent form, you will still get stronger.

    Yes, in your sense, fighters would benefit from pl style training. In the real sense, fighters would benefit from getting more muscle and getting stronger.
     
  13. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    In terms of strength training, an MMA fighter would need to utilize common sense (i.e. set goals according to sport, design strengthening program according to those goals). In terms of building max strength, nothing beats powerlifting-oriented training. But, obviously, an MMA fighter would also need to include more power work (like oly lifts), more unilateral work and more explosive strength work (like plyometrics) than a powerlifter.

    When it comes to benching, the goal is obviously not to shorten the ROM, like that japanese bencher, but to get stronger in horizontal pushing. In that context, a certain amount of arch is needed, not to shorten the ROM, but to place the shoulder joint in a less stressful position. Also, isolating chest and triceps is a stupid concept and Tosa's answer covered that point pretty well.
     
  14. James Fuller

    James Fuller Amateur Fighter

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    This is exactly what I would have said, except much more concise and intelligent :)

    Train LIKE powerlifters just dont train EXACTLY like powerlifters. TBH my lifting mentality is 60% powerlifter, 25% olympic lifter, 15% endurance athlete.
     
  15. KnightTemplar

    KnightTemplar Ebony Belt Platinum Member

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    This. Excellent reply, Tosa.
     
  16. graedy

    graedy Brown Belt

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    I personally think that as a fighter you should focus on a lifitng technique that enables him to get stronger while staying injuryfree. This doesn't have to be the technique that makes you able to move the most weight.
    But in reality those two things go pretty much hand in hand.
    If you notice that you benefit the most from squats that are higher than parallel you could even do those. PL rules don't apply but you are probably best off taking those as a guideline.
    My personal 4 key lifts are: DL, BP, Squat and weighted CHINS.
    In grappling you need strong hips and the ability to build up and hold tension all through your body which is trained pretty good by doing DL and squats. You push a lot on your opponents hips to create space which covered by benching and you pull your opponent towards you a lot which is covered by CHINS.
     
  17. Big H

    Big H Blue Belt

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    Thanks for the answers i see all your points.
     
  18. Ethelfrith

    Ethelfrith Orange Belt

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    As for the bench form question, think about in what situations in an MMA fight you are going to be using a bench press motion.

    First things that come to mind for me are working off your back, shrimping, bucking, to create space or sweep your opponent. In this situation, you should be using not only your chest and triceps, but bridging, arching your back, and driving with your legs.

    That motion sound more like a "powerlifting" style bench press or a "chest day" style to you?

    MMA is full of compound movements through various ranges of motion, powerlifting is full of compound movements through various ranges of motion. Obviously strength training for a powerlifting competition is different from strength training for an MMA match, but they are more similar than you might think.
     
  19. VoodooPlata

    VoodooPlata Brown Belt

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    The most obvious reason for an MMA fighter to have a good, explosive bench would be for punching, I think. Leg drive, put your back into it even though you're pushing, development of triceps and chest (among other things, but these matter for punching), explosiveness from close to the body to lockout... bench has some carryover to punching. I think.
     
  20. James Fuller

    James Fuller Amateur Fighter

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    actually the most obvious reason was explained in the post just above yours. Bench does not lead to a more powerful punch the way a good strong bench allows you to buck someone off you. There may be very very little crossover but not much. Pudz for example can use his strength more in grappling than in strikes by a long shot. Punching power is much more to do with your technique than your muscle size/strength.
     

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