Should fighters be punished for using recreational drugs?

[Thisisme2]

Should fighters be punished for using recreational drugs? And if so, should there be a distinction between in- and out-of-competition usage? And should marijuana usage be exempt?

Your thoughts?

No they should not. Period.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Yes, but that does not change the fact that you are comparing a drug test a month before a fight to a drug test taken immediately afterwards.

It's apples to oranges.

Other than that, I don't disagree with your tidbit about when the marijuana might have actually been taken, but I still want to note that Jones (at least thus far) has not failed his post fight test.

1. Whether a test was pre-fight or post-fight only affects the AC jurisdiction. There is no reason anyone else should care at all about that distinction.

2. I remain a bit hazy about why being busted for any banned substance would not count a month prior to a fight. Had he had elevated testosterone, would it not have mattered because he was out of competition? Are recreational drugs treated differently? this would be sensible, but much has been made on Sherdog through the years about the ACs treating marijuana as a PED.

3. If the AC had no jurisdiction to regulate cocaine use in an out of competition test, then why did they test for it?

4. It does not seem reasonable to consider tests one month prior to a fight out of competition in most cases, given that training camps are an integral part of professional combat sports. Other than Jones, are there any examples of fighters failing drug tests one month out with no repercussions?

5. Does any other sport makes this kind of in and out of competition distinction? I think if the UFC tries to sell this explanation to the broader sports media and fans in general, they will end up looking like fools.

IMO, they got this one right.

They should be applauded for not punishing (any fighter, not just Jones) him for recreational drug use that hurt no one but himself, instead of being lambasted by the media, fans, and general public.

If they took the stance that they were only concerned with policing PED use and that they left enforcement of recreational drug laws to the police, I would support them. That has not been their policy prior to Jon Jones failing this test and that makes it harder to support their lack of action in this case.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Post-fight drug tests. If Jones tests positive to a post-fight in-competition test and they don't punish him then I'm on your side (I kinda am anyway as I don't think weed should be classified as a PED), but as of now the only testing was out of-competition.

Where does the UFC policy make any distinction about pre and post fight tests? And why would that distinction matter? This is such a flimsy argument.

The UFC is looking for any technicality that will save them from having to delay Jones vs rumble/Gus in 2016.

If they simply came out and said they would no longer punish any fighters for recreational drug use, I would applaud. As it is, they are being very inconsistent in how they are approaching this situation.

 

[FallonFoxGOAT]

1. Whether a test was pre-fight or post-fight only affects the AC jurisdiction. There is no reason anyone else should care at all about that distinction.

I disagree, since it

 

[Rittsy]

Where does the UFC policy make any distinction about pre and post fight tests? And why would that distinction matter? This is such a flimsy argument.

None of the people you point to failed an out of competition test. As far as I'm aware nobody has failed out of competition testing for marijuana use and been punished for it. If Jones fails his post-fight test you can expect him to face punishment just like the others did.

The UFC is looking for any technicality that will save them from having to delay Jones vs rumble/Gus in 2016.

Which fighter was punished for testing positive for a non-banned drug in an out of competition test? What kind of joy do you think the UFC gets from punishing fighters for failing drug tests of non-PEDs?

If they simply came out and said they would no longer punish any fighters for recreational drug use, I would applaud. As it is, they are being very inconsistent in how they are approaching this situation.

They haven't punished anyone for out of competition use. This is about as consistent as they can be.

 

[JDB]

Nope.

 

[Morning Star]

As long as it's not an enhancer I'm cool with it. Weed isn't going to improve your performance. Something like meth, crack, coke might be able to if not in the ring with cutting weight.

 

[ilfirin]

Nopes. It remains utterly retarded. Unless it's a PED it's really no ones business.

 

[Holic]

yes. i was floored when they put melvin guillard back in the ufc. it was wrong then and its wrong now.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Not for me to say, but the UFC should have a clear policy on it, and they should adhere to that policy consistently.

 

[zephid]

Prove possession.

The fact that he admitted to using cocaine, not just once but enough times to actually checking himself into a clinic to get clean pretty much proves that he has been in possession of cocaine at least once.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

So you are unwilling to support a step in the right direction because you believe it's for the wrong reasons?

Good question. I think we are largely on the same page until we come to this point.

I suppose my gut response is that providing loopholes for the people at the top rather than subject them to the full stupidity of the rules often relaxes pressure to change those rules.

That may certainly be a counter-productive attitude.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

They should do exactly what they did for a "hard" recreational drug: send to rehab and no further "punishment". Even the word punishment is sickening to use for a grown man who took drugs, it's extremely co condescending.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

None of the people you point to failed an out of competition test. As far as I'm aware nobody has failed out of competition testing for marijuana use and been punished for it. If Jones fails his post-fight test you can expect him to face punishment just like the others did.

1. What is an out of competition test? I have never heard of such a thing until the UFC decided Jones should not be punished for something they usually punish guys for. Can you think of an example in any other context of a test not counting for being out of competition?

Can someone clearly define the difference?

2. At what point to tests count as being in competition? Is it only the post fight tests that count? A week? 48 hours? Because common sense would suggest that once a fight is scheduled and fighters are training for it that they would be obligated to undergo testing and be responsible for the results.

3. What if Jones had failed the test for PEDs of some sort? Would he be exempt from consequences for being out of competition?

4. If the results of the test do not matter, why was he tested? Either he should not have been tested in the first place, or he should be held responsible for the results of the test.

5. It is possible that the AC simply treats cocaine and marijuana differently than they do actual PEDs, which would be sensible. However, I have not seen anyone state that concretely, and it does in fact seem like they treated recreational drug use in a very similar way to PED use.

Which fighter was punished for testing positive for a non-banned drug in an out of competition test? What kind of joy do you think the UFC gets from punishing fighters for failing drug tests of non-PEDs? They haven't punished anyone for out of competition use. This is about as consistent as they can be.

This entire argument relies on the definition of out of competition, which I have never seen be an point of emphasis in any UFC drug test in the past.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

No, unless they can prove the fighter was under the influence of those drugs during the fight. Who cares what you did weeks or months ago when drugs only alter your consciousness for a couple of hours.

 

[dmtpanic]

Nobody should ever be punished for using recreational drugs. Even if they hurt somebody while on said drugs. We already have laws for when you hurt someone, no reason arbitrarily tack on extra charges, it wasn't the drug's fault.

 

[Diamond Jim]

Considering the use of cocaine is illegal then yes they should.

 

[chefdiablo]

In-competition is actually just one day...fight day.

Rest of the camp is officially out-of-competition. So that in and out is total BS.

Yeah he should be punished because he broke UFC's Code of Conduct but he is a cash cow now so its all good.

The code of conduct point is what bothers me.

The UFC has this in place so they can deal with these things internally. Higher profile fighters and needle movers are able to avoid any punishments while lower level fighters are sent packing almost instantly.

The problem with a guy like Jon Jones coming out the other side of this thing without any real consequences is that he will be even more smug and arrogant about it. Right now his humble public statement is all show; the real Jon Jones will be even more empowered. The UFC refuses to deal with him harshly and they run the risk of Jon eventually doing some damage that will be very difficult to sweep under the table.

A few years back I mentioned numerous times in various threads that Jon's behaviors were likely to spin out of control and eventually damage him irreparably if he didn't make some big changes. Nothing has swayed me from that belief. His latest public issue is just confirmation for me that Jon's foundation has some serious cracks in it and in some places it is starting to crumble. The question is; will it be just a few drug incidents and some social media gaffs, or will he make the Tiger Woods break down seem normal? Time will tell.

 

[CurbStomp]

No and stop using Diaz's suspensions as a wedge argument for your Orwellian beliefs... Absolute garbage that Nick has ever been suspended for pot, absolute garbage Pat Healy got 100k and a win taken from him, and to be honest, Brian Ortega should still hold a win over Mike De La Torre.

Wins shouldn't be overturned unless there was a blatant error or bias on the part of the ref. Ask Francisco Rivera how that one goes... Fighters should be suspended and fined for PED use but IMO no contests do nothing but confuse people who are looking at records without having seen fights, Yancy Medeiros knocked Yves Edwards out, a no contest does not remove the concussion Yves suffered...

 

[FallonFoxGOAT]

Good question. I think we are largely on the same page until we come to this point.

I suppose my gut response is that providing loopholes for the people at the top rather than subject them to the full stupidity of the rules often relaxes pressure to change those rules.

That may certainly be a counter-productive attitude.

That's fair enough.

Civilized discussion on Sherdog is too few and far between.