Should encryption be illegal?

[Thurisaz]

My opinion is, FUCK NO.

Everyone should have the right to privacy.

I heartily agree. Was here to say this but all that was needed is in the OP.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

The difference is that the government doesn't have a copy of the key to every house door nor do they have the combination to everyone's home safe.

If the cops come to your door with a warrant you have to let them into your house and safe. If you don't they will get in and you'll be arressted for obstruction.

Additionally, under the Patriot Act they don't actually NEED to show probable cause in order to obtain a warrant to go onto your physical premises and search your home or safe.



https://www.aclu.org/surveillance-under-usa-patriot-act

In other words, there are very few restrictions in terms of when they can need to ask for a warrant when it comes to electronic surveillance. They don't have to show any probable cause that you are involved in illegal activity, or even that your activities are directly or even tangentially related to an actual investigation.

In fact, prior to a court ruling THIS year, the NSA and other agencies was using the Patriot Act to execute completely WARRANTLESS searches and surveillance.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...e-patriot-act-allow-bulk-surveillance/392651/

In other words, for YEARS the government was performing surveillance on US citizens and companies without a warrant, without probable cause, and without even the slightest evidence of a tangential relationship to ongoing investigations.

Essentially, some guy in a room said, "Keep an eye on XXX" and BAM. Welcome to a bunch of techs digging into your phone and e-mails.

Sorry, I don't know about you but I'm not going to trust a bunch of guys in a government cubicle with NO real restrictions or oversight to NOT abuse their authority, or even to keep that information secure, or even keep the methods which they obtain that information (like back door encryption keys) secure.

I'm not going to defend the Patriot Act here because I really don't know enough about it.

All I'm saying is that as long as the law enforcement obtains a warrant I have no problem with them accessing encrypted data.

I also don't have a problem with them storing data as long as they don't look at it without a warrant and use evidence obtained without a warrant to arrest and prosecute.

 

[Rod1]

If the cops come to your door with a warrant you have to let them into your house and safe. If you don't they will get in and you'll be arressted for obstruction.



I'm not going to defend the Patriot Act here because I really don't know enough about it.

All I'm saying is that as long as the law enforcement obtains a warrant I have no problem with them accessing encrypted data.

I also don't have a problem with them storing data as long as they don't look at it without a warrant and use evidence obtained without a warrant to arrest and prosecute.

`

Edward Snowden

You

 

[Malthian]

If the cops come to your door with a warrant you have to let them into your house and safe. If you don't they will get in and you'll be arressted for obstruction.

I'm not going to defend the Patriot Act here because I really don't know enough about it.

All I'm saying is that as long as the law enforcement obtains a warrant I have no problem with them accessing encrypted data.

I also don't have a problem with them storing data as long as they don't look at it without a warrant and use evidence obtained without a warrant to arrest and prosecute.

Except that they CAN look at it without any probable cause as they are not held to the same warrant standards as FISCA.

And yes, they will get in, but they have to physically go to your home and force their way into your house and home. You don't have every police station sitting around with a copy of your house key and safe combinations stashed in a room at the local precinct where people can make or steal copies of those keys and combinations.

Nor can they simply sit at their desk and access your home and safe. With electronic data and communications they don't even have to leave their desks, nor are they required to notify you that you are being searched which means you have no idea that they're searching you and you have no opportunity to legally contest their search and seizure with your lawyer.

Just saying "as long as they get a warrant" is only meaningful if they are held to the same standards of physical search and seizures, which they are NOT.

And the Patriot Act is the MOST relevant part as it completely guts the protections against unreasonable search and seizure under the 4th amendment.

If you haven't read up on the Patriot Act, then you should. It grants sweeping powers without oversight or consequence. I would argue that if you truly believe in the constitutional rights granted under the constitution, it's not only your right, but your moral obligation as a citizen to do so.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

`

Edward Snowden

You

 

[Malthian]

Fix those things.

But still give law enforcement access to encrypted data if they have probable cause.

So what you're saying is it's good in theory, if reality wasn't reality and the law wasn't the law.

Yah, even then I disagree.

I just don't believe in giving governments that kind of unfettered access to individual citizens' lives without a sufficiently large threat to public safety. Especially when they're already spending billions on intervention and prevention through other avenues.

Even without encryption keys, the government can still prosecute people for failing to decrypt their data if they have a proper warrant. And they can still use brute force methods to crack the passwords and encryption keys. In other words, if it's important enough there's nothing stopping them from doing it without having the keys.

 

[Phanuel]

Most Local Law Enforcement Agencies are now equipped with this:

 

[uppercutbus]

Isn't it in the shithouse UK David Cameron has said he wants to make encryption illegal?

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tain-online-shopping-banking-messaging-terror

Also in that same shit country, a policeman can ask you for your phone/computer password and if you don't give it you're breaking the law:

http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue...ctions/11071/police-force-password-cellphone/

 

[Awesomesauce]

When I was 15 I wrote an encryption algorithm for mixing two packages of information into one file, each package retrievable from the same data with different passwords. I did that when I was FIFTEEN. You can't stop encryption, you can't even slow it down a little. These notions of making it illegal are comical at best.

 

[elmo_1968]

I don't see how this violates the 5th amendment.

They seize my encrypted data, but can't decrypt it w/o the password.

They can ask me for the password, but to give it is providing evidence that may incriminate me. So they can ask, but I have the right to decline via the 5th amendment.

 

[gespenst]

Agree with your assessment of situation