Should a White belt 4 stripes tap out a purple belt??

Ok. But I still find it hard to believe as a white belt, in the gi, he was destroying brown belts.

He wasn't doing it this at IBJJF tournaments, but at fighter training and in the regular class. He started as a 215 lb state champ wrestler. The first time I rolled with him I had him in a deep arm bar. He just lifted me off the ground and rag dolled me. He never gets tired and is extremely explosive and powerful. Guard drills he would just get to his feet and take you down. I have figured out ways to deal with him for now but he will pass me by before he gets to purple.

If you are a recreational brown belt around 150-170 lbs he is a nightmare.

edit...I will go ahead and admit it. He tapped me out one time while he was a white belt. He would have tapped other black belts as well if they weren't ducking him...:) (the only white belt to ever tap me out as a black belt "foot lock while in guard")

This kid is a real beast. His potential is great...


His first two pro MMA fights have not gone past the first round. Won both by ref stoppage. He got his blue belt after only a few months of training in the gi. All the upper belts were happy on this day...

 
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His first two pro MMA fights have not gone past the first round. Won both by ref stoppage. He got his blue belt after only a few months of training in the gi. All the upper belts were happy on this day...



Coming in as an accomplished wrestler also makes him by definition a sandbagger. If a friend of mine faced him in white belt JJ comp it would have pissed me off, if my friend was just starting out with no grappling and testing the competition waters.
 
Coming in as an accomplished wrestler also makes him by definition a sandbagger. If a friend of mine faced him in white belt JJ comp it would have pissed me off, if my friend was just starting out with no grappling and testing the competition waters.

Please explain how it's sandbagging when he's had no experience with bjj. As an instructor, would you promote someone to blue if they didn't know how to effectively use a closed guard or knew sweeps or any number of basic things people don't know/understand without a background in bjj?
 
Coming in as an accomplished wrestler also makes him by definition a sandbagger. If a friend of mine faced him in white belt JJ comp it would have pissed me off, if my friend was just starting out with no grappling and testing the competition waters.

This is over the top, in terms of alleging sandbagging.

Wrestling is not BJJ. Yes, coming from a solid wrestling base can really help your BJJ and give you an advantage over other new people, but it doesn't translate at all into BJJ knowledge.

I'm sorry, but you can't promote someone that has no clue how to sweep, escape from under side control or mount, or do an effective arm bar or triangle simply because they have the physicality to beat up on white belts.
 
I think Nick's first MMA fight was against a brown belt. You can tell that Nick still needed to work on some fundamentals... He had like 2 months of bjj training in a gi at this point I think.

 
I'm sorry, but you can't promote someone that has no clue how to sweep, escape from under side control or mount, or do an effective arm bar or triangle simply because they have the physicality to beat up on white belts.

one of the guys at my gym went through the same ordeal. he wasn't given his blue belt for the longest time because he refused to learn guard work and sweeps. he would use his collegiate wrestling skills and sambo leg locks, get the takedown, stay on top, and destroy legs. always won the no-gi expert classes
 
Please explain how it's sandbagging when he's had no experience with bjj. As an instructor, would you promote someone to blue if they didn't know how to effectively use a closed guard or knew sweeps or any number of basic things people don't know/understand without a background in bjj?

Anybody coming in with a solid grappling base from wrestling and/or judo background has a big advantage over someone starting at the same time with no grappling background. As such a person, I decided not to compete at white belt level just for that reason. I competed up at blue as a new white and did pretty well, and I was not nearly such a good wrestler as Nick, and I had more than a decade of rust between me and any grappling. You can see that as unfair, or as "life isn't fair get over it." Its probably both. But when a guy goes into competition at white as a true grappling newb and gets steamrolled by a sandbagger that can be extremely disheartening.

A true grappling newbie has to start feeling and understanding leverage and balance and control while starting to build some instincts on how to move and respond from ground zero, and an experienced grappler comes in just having to add components onto a solid base. The path to grappling competence is *much* shorter.
 
This is over the top, in terms of alleging sandbagging.

Wrestling is not BJJ. Yes, coming from a solid wrestling base can really help your BJJ and give you an advantage over other new people, but it doesn't translate at all into BJJ knowledge.

I'm sorry, but you can't promote someone that has no clue how to sweep, escape from under side control or mount, or do an effective arm bar or triangle simply because they have the physicality to beat up on white belts.

I agree. I'm not saying he should have been instantly granted a belt. I'm saying he shouldn't be competing against white, which apparantly he didn't. I was illustrating my original point about how a white belt can tap skilled higher belts: by being a sandbagger.
 
He wasn't doing it this at IBJJF tournaments, but at fighter training and in the regular class. He started as a 215 lb state champ wrestler. The first time I rolled with him I had him in a deep arm bar. He just lifted me off the ground and rag dolled me. He never gets tired and is extremely explosive and powerful. Guard drills he would just get to his feet and take you down. I have figured out ways to deal with him for now but he will pass me by before he gets to purple.

If you are a recreational brown belt around 150-170 lbs he is a nightmare.

edit...I will go ahead and admit it. He tapped me out one time while he was a white belt. He would have tapped other black belts as well if they weren't ducking him...:) (the only white belt to ever tap me out as a black belt "foot lock while in guard")

This kid is a real beast. His potential is great...

His first two pro MMA fights have not gone past the first round. Won both by ref stoppage. He got his blue belt after only a few months of training in the gi. All the upper belts were happy on this day...

 
I agree. I'm not saying he should have been instantly granted a belt. I'm saying he shouldn't be competing against white, which apparantly he didn't. I was illustrating my original point about how a white belt can tap skilled higher belts: by being a sandbagger.

Yeah, he didn't compete and was given a blue as quickly as possible so i'm pretty sure the situation was well-handled and he was never sandbagging. You can't sandbag in class... the word is way over used. Sandbagging is the INTENTIONAL misrepresentation of your skills/experience to do well in competitions.... it's not just being more skilled than someone your rolling with in training. Then your not sandbagging the person, your improving the person's grappling. If there are two white belts standing before me and one has no prior grappling experience and the other is a former wrestler, i'm rolling with the wrestler... I'm not worried about getting tapped but excited about learning something in the process.
 
Yeah, he didn't compete and was given a blue as quickly as possible so i'm pretty sure the situation was well-handled and he was never sandbagging. You can't sandbag in class... the word is way over used. Sandbagging is the INTENTIONAL misrepresentation of your skills/experience to do well in competitions.... it's not just being more skilled than someone your rolling with in training. Then your not sandbagging the person, your improving the person's grappling. If there are two white belts standing before me and one has no prior grappling experience and the other is a former wrestler, i'm rolling with the wrestler... I'm not worried about getting tapped but excited about learning something in the process.

I agree Nick is both a good and bad example of sandbagging. :) Bad because he didn't compete at white but good because he could tap the occasional blackbelt before he got his blue due to extensive grappling background.
 
I agree Nick is both a good and bad example of sandbagging. :) Bad because he didn't compete at white but good because he could tap the occasional blackbelt before he got his blue due to extensive grappling background.

Yeah, I see what your saying.
 
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