Shooting: dropping to a knee vs. not

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by StillStand'N, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. StillStand'N

    StillStand'N White Belt

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    In both mma and wrestling, I wanted to hear others' perspectives on what the pros and cons are of shooting and dropping to a knee vs. not doing so. I'm mainly interested in shooting related to mma, but would also like to hear the wrestling aspect.
     
  2. paulchu

    paulchu Guest

    dropping to a knee invites his knee into your face.
     
  3. #1can

    #1can Blue Belt

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    how does not dropping to one knee when you shoot prevent eating a knee?
     
  4. Shaldag

    Shaldag Orange Belt

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    dropping to the knee sorta commits you to dropping low so your kinda stuck low if the shot isnt successful, when you dont drop to the knee you have more all around mobility(e.g. to cut the back or take an upperbody clinch), dropping to the knee gives alott more "drive" to ensure the takedown.
     
  5. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    Also depends on the org. The UFC will consider you a downed opponent if you are on 1 knee, so you wouldn't have to worry about knees to the face.
     
  6. paulchu

    paulchu Guest

    ^ shaldag gets a cookie from me.

    if you got a knee coming your way and you're already down on one knee, you lost precious split seconds to get off that knee and jump out of the way. if you shoot without dropping, you're already in prime position to maneuver.

    furthermore, you also have a slower shoot when you drop to one knee for the exact same reason. If you want a stronger shoot, you definitely need to work on your quads. lots of lunges and deadlifts to improve your game. dropping to your knee will not make your shoot stronger because you lose momentum as you have to come to a complete stop when your knee comes down to coming back up. if you bend at the knees and pounce, you have more a V shaped momentum. shoulder should plant right in the solar plexus (not the waist) and you should be grabbing behind the legs.... you want him to fall back as if someone were on all fours behind him while you push his upper body backwards, this prevents his legs from going backwards and shooting into a sprawl.

    Also, try drilling shoots, and try double shoots, do a regular shoot and without coming up, shoot again to help build explosiveness. another drill i recommend is a punch combination followed by a shoot, remember to always shoot with the shoulder that's already leading. Most people will see a shtraight shoot coming a mile away, but if you distract them with your hands, it often leads to a surprise. that's what the pros do.
     
  7. paulchu

    paulchu Guest

    true, but you could always consider the possibility of eating the knee before yours goes down, shoots are fairly easy to spot.
     
  8. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    You are going to get that whether the knee hits the ground or not. The poster's questions was the pros and cons. The only con I saw to dropping the knee is getting kneed.
     
  9. paulchu

    paulchu Guest

    b0b, I think we are on the same page, just different way of processing the question in our minds. I agree with you 100%

    I'd like to add that I dont think there is a pro to dropping to a knee, even in wrestling, that is unless you have very little sense of balance.
     
  10. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    I just learnt the double leg so I cannot say one way or the other, however I learned to drop on one knee. I pulled it off yesterday against a 3 stripe white. ( I have zero stripes as yet ). I pivoted on my dropped knee when he tried to hop away and I got him down. Pro= it worked for me in sparring, Con= knee gets bruised easily, ( I know: " boo-hoo-hoo " ).
     
  11. pitviper259

    pitviper259 Guest

    not true paul, they teach you to drop to a knee in order to get to the ankles which is what you want in wrestling(i.e. the lower you are the easier the takedown) and if you watch olympic or college wrestling you will see often shots that are taken the way your saying are very often easily defended. But for mma you may have a point, however i think you will eat a knee regardless of if you are on your knee or not..... if your opponent is ready for your shot, the trick is the set up, like how you said to use your hands and than take the shot
     
  12. KDawg

    KDawg Orange Belt

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    Paul, I think that dropping onto the knee is actually a faster smoother movement if you perform it properly. If you don't drop to a knee (MMA), 1. chances are that you are not low enough 2. you are gonna telegraph your movement 3. you're gonna take a few punches to the face for not dropping your level. 4. If you look down, you have a high possibility of getting kneed than if you did a wrestling shot. If you don't drop to a knee (grappling), 1. you telegraph your movement, 2. your center of gravity is high and you will get countered by a good fighter, 3. your balance is hindered.

    Dropping to "one knee" is the correct way to shoot. The reason I put quotations around it is because when you "drop to one knee", that knee should only be on the ground for a split second as you explode forward. It gives you the proper level, doesn't jeopardize your balance, gives you a focused forward explosion, and allows for ankle picks and lifts.
     
  13. Soulfly

    Soulfly Guest

    Agreed.
     
  14. paulchu

    paulchu Guest

    I disagree your disagreement. If you shoot and you are too low, its far too easy to get in a cow catcher position from your opponent. If your shoulder is in their waist, then you are also in prime position to get your head locked in the guys arm > guillotine.

    I would agree that it is easier to get a 2-point with the ankles than behind the knees, but as you say, in an MMA situation, being that low will def have you eating a knee. being a little bit higher means you eat less knee, and may just catch it to the body instead of the face. Also going for the ankle means the opponent can lift one foot out, take a step back and nullify the take down. if you go for behind the knees, if the opponent tries to step back, you will catch his ankles instead.

    I can see why one knee would be better in a wrestling situation, because bending at the knees very low is not as stable as putting one knee down in case your opponent goes to shoot you at the same time.

    In grappling, I would say its more advantageous to catch the opponent's limbs closer to his midsection than the outer regions.


    KDawg, how does not dropping to a knee not telegraph your movement more than dropping your knee? Regardless, in MMA, you should never go for a shoot directly, but instead fake him out by throwing a few punches or something. That way your body is halfway through the shooting motion and doesn't require you to drop down as low (which is where you will eat a knee).
     
  15. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    StillStand'N, read no more. You have your answer. ^^^^^^
     
  16. Richard Emling

    Richard Emling Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    you got the right idea here
     
  17. Hammer Time

    Hammer Time Brown Belt

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    previous comment about pros not dropping to 1 knee while shooting. Mark kerr wud always drop to not one but two knees when shooting and his shot was very effective. In nhb and wrestling dropping to the kness is not wrong however I think that sum guys have slightly diffrent shoots so whatever feels more natural and works more often than not be it knees or no kness
     
  18. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    Are you sure? I thought a downed opponent had to have at least three limbs on the ground.
     
  19. Os3y3ris

    Os3y3ris Green Belt

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    A. Prevents proper sprawling
    B. Gives a good, low, level
    C. Gives a solid base to work from if sprawled on
     
  20. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    No, I am not 100% sure. The UFC website doesn't define what a grounded opponent is. I remember in Horn's fight with Babalu in the IFC, that they were thinking that 1 knee was a downed opponent. I assumed it was the same in the UFC.
     

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