shogun vs dc would have been more competitive?

DC has much better top control and takedowns than Sonnen, and his GnP is harder. His striking is also better than Shogun's. He'd take Shogun down and tire him. By round 2, Shogun is winded. By round 3, he's beat up and gassed. Then comes the beating.
 
Doubtful. Shogun may have been able to give DC more to worry about on the feet but he would have been dominated just as bad in the grappling exchanges and probably choked out sooner.
 
Let's put it this way, everyone get rag dolled by DC.
 
DC is an enormous lhw, it looked unfair vs hendo.

Can't wait to see how he matches up against jones.
 
last exile 28 said:
Only die hard shogun fans will say yes, but they are pretty delusional so just ignore them. No fucking way Shogun makes it out of the 2nd round with Cormier. You saw how easily he rag dolled Henderson who actually has some wrestling, imagine what he does to 0 TDD 0 wrestling Shogun Rua.
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Shogun outwrestled Henderson in their first fight as well as outgrappled him. The thread title wasn't Shogun would do well against Cormier, it was suggesting he might have done better which IMO he would have since he's a better grappler than Henderson is and he can still grapple at a high level while tired. Henderson's grappling goes down hill fast as he tires.
 
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I think shogun gets airlifted to the ground in same manner as hendo and he wilts sadly
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Shogun outwrestled Henderson in their first fight as well as outgrappled him. The thread title wasn't Shogun would do well against Cormier, it was suggesting he might have done better which IMO he would have since he's a better grappler than Henderson is and he can still grapple at a high level while tired Henderson's grappling goes down hill fast as he tires.
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Shogun has always had decent takedowns. But wrestling is more than just takedowns. Shoguns defensive wrestling is indeed worse than Hendo's.

Hendo's TDD = 66%
Shogun's TDD = 38%
 
Shogun doesn't have a chance in hell at stopping a Cormier takedown, or moving that rock once he got on top of him.
 
huh..so nobody except one or two actually thinks that any shogun has a chance :)
I got fooled by that fool just across some replies.
 
Obsidian said:
Shogun has always had decent takedowns. But wrestling is more than just takedowns. Shoguns defensive wrestling is indeed worse than Hendo's.

Hendo's TDD = 66%
Shogun's TDD = 38%
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There is a lot more to wrestling than takedowns and TDD, Shogun has bad TDD but the rest of his MMA wrestling game is better than Henderson's. He's a better scrambler, his takedowns are better and he's better at maintaining control. Shogun is a better MMA wrestler than Henderson, he just has bad TDD.

I'm not sure where you are getting that statistic from as Fightmetric has Henderson's TDD at 58% and Shogun's TDD at 44%.

Shogun outwrestled Henderson both times they fought and while Henderson's takedown success rate is a bit higher, Shogun has fought more guys with better TDD than Henderson has and it isn't far off, 48% for Shogun and 54% for Henderson.

Shogun also averages more takedowns than Henderson with 2.28 to Henderson's 1.62 per 15 minutes.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Shogun outwrestled Henderson in their first fight as well as outgrappled him. The thread title wasn't Shogun would do well against Cormier, it was suggesting he might have done better which IMO he would have since he's a better grappler than Henderson is and he can still grapple at a high level while tired. Henderson's grappling goes down hill fast as he tires.
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You're sitting here talking like Henderson is still in his prime and using his wrestling, when in fact he hasn't been using it at all these past couple of fights, just brawling and swinging that H-bomb around (which is still working for him cause he has such crazy KO power and is still tough as concrete)

I know the thread is can Shogun do better, and I'm saying hell no. Wrestling is his weakness easily, Cormier is an amazing wrestler who also happens to be WAAAY bigger than Shogun. You saw how much bigger Cormier was than Dan, he'd be just as big against Shogun. Cormier would have no problem taking Shogun down and once he did that would be it. Shogun isn't getting out from under Cormier. Shogun couldn't do anything when Jon Jones got him down, he'd be even more loss with DC on top of him
 
last exile 28 said:
You're sitting here talking like Henderson is still in his prime and using his wrestling, when in fact he hasn't been using it at all these past couple of fights, just brawling and swinging that H-bomb around (which is still working for him cause he has such crazy KO power and is still tough as concrete)

I know the thread is can Shogun do better, and I'm saying hell no. Wrestling is his weakness easily, Cormier is an amazing wrestler who also happens to be WAAAY bigger than Shogun. You saw how much bigger Cormier was than Dan, he'd be just as big against Shogun. Cormier would have no problem taking Shogun down and once he did that would be it. Shogun isn't getting out from under Cormier. Shogun couldn't do anything when Jon Jones got him down, he'd be even more loss with DC on top of him
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What does this have to do with this thread or what I posted? DC didn't fight prime Henderson he fought modern day Henderson. Shogun's skill set matches up better with DC's skill set than Henderson's. I never brought up prime Henderson or any fights where he was in his prime, you did.

Shogun got hit with a huge knee to start the Jones fight and still got up from under Jones if my memory is serving me right, Jones and DC are also very different in build, it's much easier to sweep a guy that isn't super lanky or create enough space to get up.

Your comparisons aren't good and you shouldn't have brought up prime Henderson since I wasn't talking about him at his prime. Shogun outwrestled Henderson both times they fought, there is a lot more to wrestling than takedowns and TDD. Shogun has better takedowns than Henderson, is better at getting back up and is better at sweeping, these are the reasons why I said that Shogun would have done better against DC.

It doesn't really matter that Henderson's TDD is bit better than Shogun's cause they are both going to get taken down by DC so whoever is better off their back and more technical on their feet matches up better with DC and that's Shogun, he would still most likely lose but he wouldn't lose as badly.
 
lol Shogun wouldnt have gone to sleep, he wouldve tapped out in the second via punches.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
There is a lot more to wrestling than takedowns and TDD, Shogun has bad TDD but the rest of his MMA wrestling game is better than Henderson's. He's a better scrambler, his takedowns are better and he's better at maintaining control. Shogun is a better MMA wrestler than Henderson, he just has bad TDD.

I'm not sure where you are getting that statistic from as Fightmetric has Henderson's TDD at 58% and Shogun's TDD at 44%.

Shogun outwrestled Henderson both times they fought and while Henderson's takedown success rate is a bit higher, Shogun has fought more guys with better TDD than Henderson has and it isn't far off, 48% for Shogun and 54% for Henderson.

Shogun also averages more takedowns than Henderson with 2.28 to Henderson's 1.62 per 15 minutes.
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http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Dan-Henderson

http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Mauricio-Rua
 
Shogun didn't outwrestle Hendo, Dan threw him to the ground early on in their first fight, got taken down after that uppercut in the 4th, and then in the 5th when he could barely stand. In their 2nd fight, Shogun knocked him down, almost stopped him via GnP. That's not wrestling.

Plus, Hendo can scramble, Shogun can't. He uses what Rogan calls a helicopter sweep to get up from the bottom. He's not stopping a takedown that's not fully completed to reverse position in a "ground clinch" to get on top or escape to his feet. Hendo did this to Fedor, Rashad and Machida recently.
 
At this point I think DC takes it but it would've been a different fight for sure. I think Shogun is better off his back than Hendo.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
What does this have to do with this thread or what I posted? DC didn't fight prime Henderson he fought modern day Henderson. Shogun's skill set matches up better with DC's skill set than Henderson's. I never brought up prime Henderson or any fights where he was in his prime, you did.

Shogun got hit with a huge knee to start the Jones fight and still got up from under Jones if my memory is serving me right, Jones and DC are also very different in build, it's much easier to sweep a guy that isn't super lanky or create enough space to get up.

Your comparisons aren't good and you shouldn't have brought up prime Henderson since I wasn't talking about him at his prime. Shogun outwrestled Henderson both times they fought, there is a lot more to wrestling than takedowns and TDD. Shogun has better takedowns than Henderson, is better at getting back up and is better at sweeping, these are the reasons why I said that Shogun would have done better against DC.

It doesn't really matter that Henderson's TDD is bit better than Shogun's cause they are both going to get taken down by DC so whoever is better off their back and more technical on their feet matches up better with DC and that's Shogun, he would still most likely lose but he wouldn't lose as badly.
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You really should change your name cause you are so biased you forget your own points in a couple of minutes to suit your next post argument.

You're sitting here saying Shogun outgrappled Henderson like its gonna mean something if he fought DC, even though we all know that Henderson has abandoned his wrestling/grappling (Decision Dan) in favor of becoming a brawler. Yea Shogun might have outgrappled a guy who USED to use his wrestling, but now obviously doesn't. If that is your argument for how Shogun could do better against DC then it is shitty at best and you need to rethink your points and try again.
"Durr yea Shogun outgrappled a MW who used to use his wrestling but is now a brawler, so obviously he can do better against a much bigger and much stronger Olympic HW wrestler"
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<-- this is basically your argument. MMAth, but worse


And if you really think Shogun Rua (especially as he is today in this time) can sweep Cormier you are even more delusional than I thought.

I bet you were one of the many guys claiming Shogun would immediately sweep Jones or leg lock him if he took him down.
 
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