Shogun "pride rules safer than unified rules"!

The Crow said:
Rules in mma don’t allow a lot of things. Kicks to the head aren’t martial arts. Just like two on one could happen in war, but shouldn’t happen in mma.
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But MMA is supposed to be unarmed combat as raw as possible.
 
Bamboozled said:
But MMA is supposed to be unarmed combat as raw as possible.
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So you you’d be for nut shots and blinding by ripping eyes out? Ripping throats out with hands? As long as it’s one vs one?
 
The Crow said:
So you you’d be for nut shots and blinding by ripping eyes out? Ripping throats out with hands? As long as it’s one vs one?
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as possible*

stomps, knees, elbows, punches, chokes, etc.
 
Bamboozled said:
as possible*

stomps, knees, elbows, punches, chokes, etc.
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Just wondering where you draw your line. Anyone can kick a man in the head while he’s down. Doesn’t take a martial artist. Soccer players and field goal kickers could probably kick a guy in the head pretty well.
 
The Crow said:
Just wondering where you draw your line. Anyone can kick a man in the head while he’s down. Doesn’t take a martial artist. Soccer players and field goal kickers could probably kick a guy in the head pretty well.
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I'd allow headbutts, knees, stomps, etc. No eye pokes, groin shots, or small joint manipulation or biting. Seems reasonable.
 
Bamboozled said:
I'd allow headbutts, knees, stomps, etc. No eye pokes, groin shots, or small joint manipulation or biting. Seems reasonable.
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I’m with you on all that except the kicks to the head of a man on the ground. It just seems cowardly, like groin shots and eye pokes.
 
Shogun also says cocaine is fine.
 
It's fighting. No eyepokes, ball shots, fish hooks, small joint manipulation.. Thats all that should be banned. Even knees when Coleman and Randleman were using them were fine. It's mma.. U can get hurt. It's a fight ... Taking things like knees and stomping out changes a fight totally. If they are going to allow elbows that cut people and blood flows... Allow everything. I would honestly prefer pride rules to unified mma. The long 1st round was great.
 
9 to 3 eye pokes also "legal" in the UFC.
 
It's a shame some of Shogoat's main tools were taken away from him but he still persevered. Ideally soccer kicks and stomps become legalized but it won't be happening.
 
Shogun Rua said:

Elbows hurt a lot more than stomps.
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Of course. When you're unconscious due to stomps everything don't hurt much.

The Crow said:
Just wondering where you draw your line. Anyone can kick a man in the head while he’s down. Doesn’t take a martial artist. Soccer players and field goal kickers could probably kick a guy in the head pretty well.
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Bull. Everyone can kick a head, but not anyone can make someone who is fighting back become defenseless enough for the kick to go through.

Better a fighter who soccer kicks than a martial artist who doesn't have balls to enter the cage.
 
This is coming from guy who's had his brains scrambled since joining ufc so yeah I can see it from his perspective.
 
He's absolutely right in terms of it hindering his style

Not sure if its 'more dangerous' but Pride rules was a much more balanced and dynamic contest that was good for all styles

It also favoured/rewarded more aggression and less control/position
 
Really, Shogun? I remember several PRIDE bouts where wrestlers snapped-down their opponent. Then they held them face down on the mat and kneed them repeatedly in the face/head. This was a normal path to victory for wrestlers in PRIDE. But, it seems concussion-inducing and not "safe". It seems worse than an elbow-induced cut on the forehead. Just my two yen.

Jarl
 
The Crow said:
Rules in mma don’t allow a lot of things. Kicks to the head aren’t martial arts. Just like two on one could happen in war, but shouldn’t happen in mma.
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But pinning a guy against the cage and elbow slicing his dome into what resembles a Saw movie victim is?

All effective strikes are 'martial arts' - headbutts, throat punches, groin shots, etc.

The rules just place limits. If kicking a downed opponent to the body is legal and fine for the viewership, then its not that different to the head. but I understand why they are banned, even though I like them. Its just where that line is.

Personally I'd be happy if kicks when BOTH fighters were downed i.e. upkicks to the face from guard, not having it is totally unbalanced, and kicks to the face to defend heel hooks etc. and knees to the head at any time.
 
Magnum1978 said:
But pinning a guy against the cage and elbow slicing his dome into what resembles a Saw movie victim is?

All effective strikes are 'martial arts' - headbutts, throat punches, groin shots, etc.

The rules just place limits. If kicking a downed opponent to the body is legal and fine for the viewership, then its not that different to the head. but I understand why they are banned, even though I like them. Its just where that line is.

Personally I'd be happy if kicks when BOTH fighters were downed i.e. upkicks to the face from guard, not having it is totally unbalanced, and kicks to the face to defend heel hooks etc. and knees to the head at any time.
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Where did I say anything about pinning a guy against the cage and elbow slicing his dome into what resembles a Saw movie victim? I didn’t. Martial arts are skills. It doesn’t take skills to kick a guy in the head while he’s on the ground. Maybe people that want to see that should watch those world star videos. They’re more suited to their likes I’m guessing. It just seems cowardly to me. ImHo
 
Magnum1978 said:
He's absolutely right in terms of it hindering his style

Not sure if its 'more dangerous' but Pride rules was a much more balanced and dynamic contest that was good for all styles

It also favoured/rewarded more aggression and less control/position
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I think you could argue though that soccer kicks made the sport safer in that they forced opponents to drop back to open guard. Without them you get way more fighters turtling up depending on the rules to defend them yet naturally you see a lot of punchs/elbows very close to or landing on the back of the head which is arguably the most dangerous thing in MMA, I don't remember that ever being munch of an issue in Pride.

Equally as well I think you could argue the extra attacks in Pride ment fights needed to be stopped faster. I mean you need to balance it in that Pride ref's did generally let fighters take more punishment but that's really just a standard you can shift reguardless of the rules. Not being able to soccer kick or stomp or knee does mean though you get some long protracted beatdowns in the US today even in an environment were ref's step in sooner.
 
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