Shinya aokis statement

I haven't really seen anyone other than Fedor do a lot of damage to Nog from his guard.

Actually I think you may be right. Of the top of my head I can't remember anyone gnp Nog in any significant way apart from Fedor.

Then again I don't know of anyone that has gnp Aoki from his guard.
 
If you define the best guard as the person who will get the most subs from his back, then Aoki has the best guard in MMA right now.

However, that isn't how I define the best guard. As we all subs aren't always the most important part of a ground game. I look at Aoki, and I see a guy that is a one trick pony, and if he beats you it will be from his back. However, when I look at a person like BJ, I see a complete fighter. BJ doesn't end fights form his back, because he looks to sweep. As stated before, you don't want to be on your back against a top level fighter, or you will get your faced smashed eventually. So, BJ uses his guard to to sweep, because he gets out of a volunerable position and then can work the rest of his game. Not to mention, BJ has very good defense from his back and always a THREAT to sub you from any position.

I would rather be in Aoki's guard any day. Sure, he may GoGo me and put me to sleep. However, if I ended up in BJ's gaurd, he would sweep me and then pound my face in with punches and elbows. I'd rather go to sleep, lol

One trick ponies can still be very effective. Look at Imanari. Aoki's guard is one of the best in mma but i still have to agree that i rather fight Aoki than BJ cause BJ is more of a complete fighter... and will ripe ur head to shreads.

But as to BJ or Imanari... I rather fight BJ.... Imanari will break ur legs.
 
I find it amazing to think about how different many of the mma bjj guys fight compared to when Royce Gracie did in the first couple of UFCs.

Although part of that is Royce Gracies particular style of bjj.
 
Aoki is the best at controlling posture in MMA. If Garcia learns to enjoy taking punches and adapts his X and spider guard to MMA he will be unstoppable like he is in grappling.
 
Nog's guard good for not taking punishment? Are you smoking crack?

Nog got ruined by Fedor from the guard. Granted, it is Fedor, but still. He also got lit up by Cro Cop before he got the sub.

He's got a great guard to be sure, but not one that avoids punishment. Nog's whole strategy is pretty much eating punishment until he can eventually lock in the sub.

1) Its fedor...hes got quite possibly the best GNP EVER...
2) Watch Little Nog where the people cant just over power him
 
Penn is, is very good but no aoki level tho
 
I would say Penn is a better grappler and mma grappler. He has a far more complete game than Aoki. I know this sounds harsh but I think Aoki is more of a bag of tricks (illusion, sorry, an injoke for any arrested development fans) than Penn. Penn has a more complete game than Aoki. Everything that Aoki can do, Penn can do better. Especially the top game and guard passing.
 
Aoki is not just a tony wonder wannabe ok?

Lol, I believe penn has maybe a stronger game in top poisiton, but I think aoki's got way better guard work. Not saying aoki is weak in top position cause he certainly isn't. (gogo from mount anyone? :D )
 
I would say Penn is a better grappler and mma grappler. He has a far more complete game than Aoki. I know this sounds harsh but I think Aoki is more of a bag of tricks (illusion, sorry, an injoke for any arrested development fans) than Penn. Penn has a more complete game than Aoki. Everything that Aoki can do, Penn can do better. Especially the top game and guard passing.

That's pretty rediculous. Aoki is dangerous from all positions, and he is certainly not weak from the top. Those "bag of tricks" have led to him dominating two top ten fighters, who are both awesome on the ground. Not to mention a few other great ground fighters.

He is the truth!
 
That's pretty rediculous. Aoki is dangerous from all positions, and he is certainly not weak from the top. Those "bag of tricks" have led to him dominating two top ten fighters, who are both awesome on the ground. Not to mention a few other great ground fighters.

He is the truth!

I don't think I explained myself very well, the point I was trying to get accross is kinda hard to get through on the internet.

Basically I think Aoki is an exceptional grappler. He is dangerous from any position. For him to be even be in the adcc against guys like Roger Gracie and Marcelo shows that hes a top tier grappler.

I will try and explain it using an example from a guy from my gym. He is very good from most positions, the thing that sets him apart has become his obsession with the Eddie Bravo rubber guard and lockdown techniques. He has really excelled at working all the transitions and has been catching people now and again with them. He probably knows many techniques that our instructor doesn't know, but when he spars with our instructor he gets taken apart. Its mostly through using simple stuff that people in most gyms learnt but with expert timing, transitions, basically the lot.

I don't think I can explain it unless it was in person. Just imagine it as a purple belt who has learnt from many, many instructors and knows losts of techniques compared to a black belt who doesn't know as many. The black belt will know instinctly and through the knowledge of body mechanics when they are in danger.

I believe the difference in ability between Penn and Aoki is like that of the difference between a black belt and a purple belt.
 
I don't think I explained myself very well, the point I was trying to get accross is kinda hard to get through on the internet.

Basically I think Aoki is an exceptional grappler. He is dangerous from any position. For him to be even be in the adcc against guys like Roger Gracie and Marcelo shows that hes a top tier grappler.

I will try and explain it using an example from a guy from my gym. He is very good from most positions, the thing that sets him apart has become his obsession with the Eddie Bravo rubber guard and lockdown techniques. He has really excelled at working all the transitions and has been catching people now and again with them. He probably knows many techniques that our instructor doesn't know, but when he spars with our instructor he gets taken apart. Its mostly through using simple stuff that people in most gyms learnt but with expert timing, transitions, basically the lot.

I don't think I can explain it unless it was in person. Just imagine it as a purple belt who has learnt from many, many instructors and knows losts of techniques compared to a black belt who doesn't know as many. The black belt will know instinctly and through the knowledge of body mechanics when they are in danger.

I believe the difference in ability between Penn and Aoki is like that of the difference between a black belt and a purple belt.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but will have to disagree whole heartedly.

I don't think we're witnessing the brief rise of a tricky grappler: I think we're witnessing the elevation of grappling to a new level in MMA. In some ways what BJ Penn started, Aoki might potentially take to another level.

His credentials are too damned good to dismiss: Judo blackbelt and BJJ blackbelt under Yuki Nakai, impressive wins in Judo, BJJ, and no gi, against quality competition. Probably the best grappler in shooto, which is known for its history of stand-out grapplers. Without the rubber guard, gogo's, or flying submissions, Aoki would still be every bit as formidable, and without solid fundamentals none of that flashy stuff would even be possible against top level competition.

I love Penn and think he's a grappling genius, but his canonization can sometimes get carried away. In MMA Aoki has been more impressive against better grapplers. I'm not yet 100% sold on Aoki's mental game, but it's impossible not to be excited about what he's shown.
 
Anybody who says Aoki is a better grappler or better mma grappler than Penn is probably just a white belt in bjj and doesn't know jack shit. BJ Penn has one of the best overall bjj mma around, and that doesn't mean ONLY the guard, it means positioning, it means defense, it means threatening all sorts of submission, etc...

I said before that Aoki's guard is one of the most dangerous and best guards in MMA and I stand by that, but nobody has a more dangerous backmount than BJ and possibly full mount, from guys that trained with BJ (black belts and mma fighters that I know) they said that it is hell with BJ on top and it isn't any better when you're in his guard.
 
Aoki's grappling is even more impressive by the fact that EVERYONE he fights, knows what he's going to do - guard game, rubber guard, jumping guard, and so on - and he STILL imposes his grappling. His lack of stand up makes him almost entirely dependant on his ground game, unlike BJ, who has a great stand-up. If BJ had not the stand-up he does, would he be as successful as he is? I really doubt so.

The fact that Aoki is a top level fighter, and he is not "well-rounded", speaks volumes of his grappling skills for MMA.
 
I think I will change my mind and choose Aokis GUARD as the best guard in mma. Remember I just said guard. There are many other mma bjj or non bjj guys that are better than him in most other positions.

I do think that JZ deserves some kudos for having survived so many legitamate submission attempts.
 
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