SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 175 - Being John Malkovich

That was one of the funniest lines for me. Guy asks if he can be anyone he wants, they say nope only John Malkovich, and he's ever so slightly disappointed but still excited because of all the people int the entire world Malkovich was his second choice.

It's perfect. Funny and weird, but also progresses the plot and provides character backstory.

For sure. Diaz still has a pretty face, but the hair, wardrobe and overall performance make it easy to believe she's a weirdo.

Nice, forgot all about that.

That's right. Lol at malkovic being near the top of the list for people to be. Adds to the absurdity.

Outside of banging Maxine, the guy in his head when JM discovered the whole operation would have gotten the best ride.
 
How do we know that about the frustration?
Compare Lester's attitude throughout the entire film compared to Integrated Malkie. By the end of the film, he's super sedate and suffers neither speech impediment nor lives in a tower of indecipherability. He, they? happily await their next vessel, which unbeknownst to them, him? already has Craig inside.

EDIT: I realize that this doesn't really answer the question of whether they're discrete or integrated inside Malkie but only addresses the attitude change from Lester, a mere single component.
 
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Compare Lester's attitude throughout the entire film compared to Integrated Malkie. By the end of the film, he's super sedate and suffers neither speech impediment nor lives in a tower of indecipherability. He, they? happily await their next vessel, which unbeknownst to them, him? already has Craig inside.

EDIT: I realize that this doesn't really answer the question of whether they're discrete or integrated inside Malkie but only addresses the attitude change from Lester, a mere single component.

Yeah, I'm more thinking that we didn't get much of JM's new personality post occupation by the Cocoon crowd.
 
That's actually a real life story. Heloise and Abelard. They had a tragic love affair which ended with her becoming a nun and him becoming a monk (he also got castrated) Their translated letters to each other are available to read. Quite a strange choice of subject matter for a puppet show.

Craig really did remind me of Barton. He had that pretentious intellectual I’m better than you and I’m going to save you with my words thing going on. I love how seriously he took his puppeteering!
 
That was one of the funniest lines for me. Guy asks if he can be anyone he wants, they say nope only John Malkovich, and he's ever so slightly disappointed but still excited because of all the people int the entire world Malkovich was his second choice.

So if you could be anyone, who would it be? I’m gonna go with my Golden Jamboree! She’s a grounded, loving dog and I think I’d like to seethe work through her eyes. If I had to pick a person, maybe Brad Pitt. While he is showering!!!
 
Compare Lester's attitude throughout the entire film compared to Integrated Malkie. By the end of the film, he's super sedate and suffers neither speech impediment nor lives in a tower of indecipherability. He, they? happily await their next vessel, which unbeknownst to them, him? already has Craig inside.

EDIT: I realize that this doesn't really answer the question of whether they're discrete or integrated inside Malkie but only addresses the attitude change from Lester, a mere single component.

I personally felt that JM wasn’t present in his own brain by the end of the movie. Made me sad, I could imagine him trapped and screaming to be heard in his own head, while these old vampires lived vicariously in his body!
 
So if you could be anyone, who would it be? I’m gonna go with my Golden Jamboree! She’s a grounded, loving dog and I think I’d like to seethe work through her eyes. If I had to pick a person, maybe Brad Pitt. While he is showering!!!

With Jams you'll be hungry all the time. With Brad you'll be banging hot chicks. Easy call.
 
Whom else do you consider Jonze's contemporaries?

Compared to Gondry, it's easy to see that while Jonze is definitely absurd -- his stories are both accessible in structure and sympathetic in theme and emotional core. Gondry succeeded with ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF A SPOTLESS MIND, another Kaufman vehicle, but I would venture to say his other work simply isn't as emotionally gripping compared to its lunacy. Weirdness for weirdness' sake.

I also tend to think Jonze might simply be easier to work with. He's got a sort of affect you can't help but be sort of taken by.

That was really my point, Gondry after that film shifted towards the more conventional. I spose Be King Rewind has some similar kinds of elements to it in terms of ideas but as you say really lacks the same inventiveness and substance plus his following stuff is close to just straight forward blockbuster.

Jonze managed to carry on creating films like Were The Wild Things Are and Her without Kaufman but which still keep the same kind of weight and originality as his work, maybe less overt black comedy to them but a similar kind of dramatic weightt and intelligence.
 
Damn, I love Being John Malkovich and I voted for it, but I just don’t feel like watching it again right now as I still have it pretty clear in my memory. Kaufman and Jonze are virtuoso geniuses combining emotionally over the top engaging stories to metamindfuckery. It’s a hard act to balance, but somehow they do it again and again. Hats off!

Is it otherwise a good flick?
It has to work around pretty small budget and it shows, but I enjoyed it.
 
Damn, I love Being John Malkovich and I voted for it, but I just don’t feel like watching it again right now as I still have it pretty clear in my memory. Kaufman and Jonze are virtuoso geniuses combining emotionally over the top engaging stories to metamindfuckery. It’s a hard act to balance, but somehow they do it again and again. Hats off!

What really counts in their favour as well I'd say is that they sell cinema to people who might not otherwise be in favour of it. I mean I felt that Rushmore was enough Wes Anderson for my lifetime yet dispite all the twee middle class quirk in Kaufman and especially Jonze's films I'v never tired of them.
 
Then he went home and worked out his angst with the puppets. So freaking creepy!

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Would you like to be inside my skin. See what I see. Feel what I feel. Think what I think is the central thesis of this film.

I would actually like to present a much more cynical take on this theme!

Craig claims that he wants to "become someone else". But... he really doesn't.

When he's inside Malkovich. He doesn't want to experience a slice of Malkovich's life (like everyone else does). When he has control of Malkovich, he is himself but only enjoys the perks of possessing the actor's body. He likes Malkovich because Malkovich enables him to fuck Maxine and become a world-celebrity with his puppeteering due to John's previous fame.

He doesn't want to see the world from Malkovich's eyes. He just wants to exploit Malkovich to realize his own dreams.


I think this is an important part of the theme. What artists present themselves as vs what they really want.

Craig presents himself as this suffering artists. He claims that his puppeteering is a way to connect to other people "to feel what they feel" and all that sentiment. He claims that he wants to reach the emotions of other people.

But in reality... he's just a self-centred horndog.

Craig says that he wants Maxine to understand him. But it's just a front to get her to fuck him. He doesn't care about Maxine's emotional state at all. She clearly doesn't want him but he hounds after her in spite of that. When he finally has Malkoviche's body -- he doesn't even realize that Maxine is drifting away from him until the freaking TV tells him so! I mean, how blind is this guy!? <45>

It's love but with one-way traffic. As long as he gets to screw her, he doesn't consider much how she thinks or feels, since she's already fulfilled her function for him.

This is also seen in how callously he handles his wife. He locks her in a freaking cage with a monkey! For all his proclamations about wanting to connect to other people, he doesn't factor in their emotions at all. It's all him, him, him! All that bleeding-hearts speak is just a facade about wanting to possess them.

I think this is foreshadowed during that hilarious puppet show. It begins with a play about people's tortured love for each other. Yet it ends with them freaking humping the walls. For all his lofty sentiment, he's a horndog!


I also think there is a message in the movie about how this is general for all actors. When Craig assumes control of Malkovich and watches the documentary about himself, everyone is speaking loftily about how he touches the souls of other people with his work yet it's all rather... phoney-sounding. Their grandstanding yet offering no concrete examples or anything that sounds like genuine sentiment. It's all rather abstract and wishy-washy. And Craig himself embodies none of the noble attributes the documentary proclaims him as. It's as if the entire society has bought into Craig's world-image. Say that you want to connect with people, but don't actually care about their emotions and just seak to satisfy yourself!

And... uhh... that's my attempt to find something thematic in Being John Malkovich!:D

EDIT: I think this dynamic is present in the final shot of the film too. Maxine is finally happy, having forsaken her Queen-bitch persona. Yet, despite her bliss, Craig is still pathetically calling out to her from inside their daughters head. Once again, her happiness doesn't matter to him, it's all about what he wants.
 
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Damn, I love Being John Malkovich and I voted for it, but I just don’t feel like watching it again right now as I still have it pretty clear in my memory.

The best part of this viewing was catching all the little stuff that really added up to a lot of laughs!
 
I think this is an important part of the theme. What artists present themselves as vs what they really want.

Craig presents himself as this suffering artists. He claims that his puppeteering is a way to connect to other people "to feel what they feel" and all that sentiment. He claims that he wants to reach the emotions of other people.

But in reality... he's just a self-centred horndog.

Yes! Which makes me think about Barton Fink and also Jack in the Shinning. How fun to have three movies in a row about artists and their choices, artists and their self images, artists in the end who are damaged and damaging people.

I had not noticed how selfish Craig was in JM. Nice discussion point!
 
I also think there is a message in the movie about how this is general for all actors. When Craig assumes control of Malkovich and watches the documentary about himself, everyone is speaking loftily about how he touches the souls of other people with his work yet it's all rather... phoney-sounding. Their grandstanding yet offering no concrete examples or anything that sounds like genuine sentiment. It's all rather abstract and wishy-washy. And Craig himself embodies none of the noble attributes the documentary proclaims him as. It's as if the entire society has bought into Craig's world-image. Say that you want to connect with people, but don't actually care about their emotions and just seak to satisfy yourself!
I definitely felt some piss taking of the pretensions of actors, directors and artists in general during that tv segment. What's said about Malkovich the master puppeteer is so over the top lofty, and not too far from what people actually say about artists.
EDIT: I think this dynamic is present in the final shot of the film too. Maxine is finally happy, having forsaken her Queen-bitch persona. Yet, despite her bliss, Craig is still pathetically calling out to her from inside their daughters head. Once again, her happiness doesn't matter to him, it's all about what he wants.
Good point. The last sentiment he expresses is for the daughter to look away so that he doesn't have to see Maxine and Lotte happy together.
 
It's love but with one-way traffic. As long as he gets to screw her, he doesn't consider much how she thinks or feels, since she's already fulfilled her function for him.

This is also seen in how callously he handles his wife. He locks her in a freaking cage with a monkey! For all his proclamations about wanting to connect to other people, he doesn't factor in their emotions at all. It's all him, him, him! All that bleeding-hearts speak is just a facade about wanting to possess them.

Yes. His treatment of women is pretty despicable. It is nice that it is balanced out by Maxine's callousness. He is truly an asshole from the beginning. It took no time at all for him to hit on Maxine and lie to Lottie. He was way too comfortable leaving his wife in a cage. And he was disparaging towards her animals from the get go. How do you live in a zoo and not kniow the names of all of your critters. Of course, he didn't hesitate to put JM in a cage in his own head when he possessed him. I guess he did redeem himself a wee bit when he left the body to save Maxine. I did like his ultimate comeuppance of being stuck in JMs subconscious.
 
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