SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 174 - The Shining

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by europe1, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    It is a huge treasure trove. It really goes on and on and there is a ton more stuff than what has been posted here. Check this out, its the first time I've ever seen this.

     
  2. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre President of the War Room

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    Here's a theory. Don't know anything about "It" to say if it makes sense. Or even what it means exactly.


     
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  3. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Out To Lunch

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    Personally my view is that the 4th of July ball from 1921 is related to the idea of the hotel being a legacy of colonial bloodshed. Not sure whether the specific year has some greater meaning but that time seems to be a representation of the peak wealth of that era and obviously the 4th of July as a celebration of the nation.

    I think Kubrick's intension is less to show some very specific supernatural event and more figurative, showing that era exerting a violent influence on Jack and then his links back to that era with his presence in the photo. The line that he's "always been the caretaker" meaning that he's always been the caretaker of that legacy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019 at 11:47 AM
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  4. xenomorph4prez

    xenomorph4prez Sanity Assassin

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    Not a member of the discussion but I was wandering if you could reply here or pm me about what the implication of the restraining hand is if you are familiar with it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019 at 12:30 PM
  5. Bullitt68

    Bullitt68 Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I've been saying it for years. People have this sense of Kubrick as an ex nihilo genius, but the reality is that - and this doesn't diminish his, or anyone else's, genius! - just like every other great filmmaker who's ever lived, Kubrick had his influences, he had the films and filmmakers he loved and who/which he wanted to tip his hat to within his own films. In the "A Life in Pictures" documentary, Alex Cox makes the supremely moronic claim that, by putting the 2001 soundtrack in the record store where Malcolm McDowell meets the two girls he has the William Tell threesome with in A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick "ha[d] given up being influenced by others" and had become "a film director whose primary influence [was] himself."

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    All you need to do is watch The Shining once and if you know jackshit about film history you'll find any number of references. You've got The Phantom Carriage there. In @HenryFlower's Last Year at Marienbad thread and in your own The Tenant thread, we talked about various influences/similarities. You've also got shout-outs to his beloved Bergman's The Silence:



    And that's to say nothing of all his other films. The one I always go to: R. Lee Ermey's improv notwithstanding, the opening of Full Metal Jacket is 100% Jack Webb. Go watch The D.I. and tell me that wasn't Kubrick's fucking playbook (garbage quality, I know, so look for it on TCM and watch it in glorious HD):



    Anyway, that's all from me for now, but I'm loving reading this thread. So Jack's a kiddie diddler, huh?

    [​IMG]
     
  6. chickenluver

    chickenluver Bookmobile Driver

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    Thats awesome! The Phantom Carriage is a really good movie. Very creepy and atmospheric. It was actually released in 1921 though not 1912. Coincidence? :eek:
    haha that's such a weird comment in itself, but especially so when based off nothing more than an easter egg.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019 at 11:46 AM
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  7. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre President of the War Room

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    Sounded like bullshit to me at first. Now I'm convinced. Jack reading a Playgirl with a story about parents having sex with their children is way too random. It also explains Jack's reaction when Wendy tells him there's some woman in the hotel that left hand-prints on Danny's neck. He incredulously asked if she was out of her fucking mind. When watching I wondered why he wasn't more relieved that she no longer thought he did it, and worried someone else was there. But he did and knows it so his reaction was more like WTF?!?. Then there's the bear shit. And it's hard not to notice the mouth on the costume looks a little small for fitting a dick in there. Jack left those marks on Danny by forcing him to go down.

    I'm also now thinking it's more of a supernatural hotel story than a ghost story.
     
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  8. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Out To Lunch

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    If anything I think such a view actually diminishes his work which is very often closely bound up with cinema as a whole rather than being some art unto itself. I would argue part of the reason he shifted genres across his career was that his style actually focused on playing on the conventions of each of them, showing events in his own visual fashion and playing against expectations.
     
  9. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    It looks like it, at least in Kubrick's version. In Stephen King's novel no, but in the film Kubrick seems to have gone out of his way to point to that. Its not that much of a stretch considering we know Jack was guilty of domestic abuse and was ultimately an axe murderer. I've always thought The Shining was a masterpiece of horror but this time around I'm really, really, really blown away by the level of detail that appears to be everywhere, in every shot. Kubrick puts a clinic on most other directors. That may just be my own personal bias but most directors, meaning almost all of them, don't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with Stanley Kubrick.

    Mind blown. 1921 being the date on the final photo of The Shining. I can never tell if something is a coincidence with Kubrick or not. Is he pointing to the influence Phantom Carriage had on him? Is he not? Who knows, but we do know he was obsessive about details. Its just crazy how many different elements of film he put in The Shining. As posted earlier in the thread, even the colors are subtly woven to sort of creep into your mind without you even noticing. The red/blue scheme happens throughout the story arcs of all the characters.

    Here is another one that hasn't been posted yet. When Jack looks into the room Danny will be staying in, there is a pic over the bed of two bears, one sitting and one standing.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  10. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre President of the War Room

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    There's no way the film isn't suggesting sexual abuse.
     
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  11. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    I'm not sure on the hand of restraint but the feather and heart comes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Here you can see the heart and feather being weighed.

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    Description from Wiki: In Ancient Egypt, it was believed that upon death, one's fate in the afterlife was determined by the weighing of one's heart. One's heart was kept within the body during mummification so that it can travel with the deceased into the afterlife. Upon death, one entered the underworld (Duat), where Anubis, the God of the dead, weighed the person's heart on a scale against the feather of Ma’at, the goddess of order, truth, and righteousness. If the heart weighed more than the feather, meaning that the person was more wicked than good, then the heart would be devoured by Ammit, a demon with the head of a crocodile, the front half of the body of a leopards, and the back half of a hippopotamus, but with goat arms.[1] If a person's heart was devoured by Ammit, then he would die a second death and be completely annihilated from existence.[2]

    The hand of restraint may be his judgement being delayed. Like maybe he's reliving the crime over and over at the hotel on a loop and not being judged right away. Its hard to say. I don't really know. With Kubrick it can be hard to tell what it is he is saying. Even a picture on the wall is not just a picture on the wall. Everything on the set is trying to say something to you or indicate something.
     
  12. Sketch

    Sketch ?.?.?.?.?.?

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    Please continue. You have single handily changed my view of this entire film, for better or for worse.

    We know Kubrick used bears in eyes wide shut to insinuate this stuff.
     
  13. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    Its definitely not my genius eye for film that came up with all this stuff. I'm just promoting the best theories and breakdowns I've come across. It all comes together though and points to Kubrick being a very special director. Its unfortunate we no longer have him with us.

    Here is another one I found on the internet that messes with my head. Remember Jack was on the wagon, 5 months sober because he got drunk, broke Danny's arm, lost his job, etc. When he takes his first drink in the bar, he has the same expression as when he dies. Are we really to that sort of subtle level with Kubrick to think he is saying that the decision to take that drink was his end. He was dead the moment he took that drink?

    He says right before he sees Lloyd the bartender that he will sell his soul for a drink.



    Then Lloyd appears and pours him some bourbon. When Jack drinks that bourbon, after saying he was going to sell his soul, he makes the expression he makes during his death scene.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. xenomorph4prez

    xenomorph4prez Sanity Assassin

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    When I think of the subliminal content of The SHiNiNG that is being discussed here and I read "a restraining hand" these verses come to mind.

    Romans 1:24
    24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    "gave them up" = released or unrestrained them

    "To worship and serve the creature instead of the Creator"

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    [​IMG]

    2 Thessalonians 2
    5Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

    The note Jack has in his right hand is a mystery and that mystery is being restrained until it is time for it to be revealed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 1:32 PM
  15. FrontNakedChoke

    FrontNakedChoke ____________________ Yellow Card

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    This poster is incredible
     
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  16. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre President of the War Room

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    Note?
     
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  17. xenomorph4prez

    xenomorph4prez Sanity Assassin

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    [​IMG]

    He is holding something between the thumb and palm of his right hand. If you find a more zoomed in pic it looks like a folded piece of paper.

    Revelation 13
    16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    It's an odd pose Jack is striking there made even odder by having something hidden in his hand and having that hand being restrained by another hand.



    Or maybe it's just coincidence and has no meaning at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 2:10 PM
  18. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre President of the War Room

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    Damn, never saw that note. Thanks. I agreed with the post earlier saying it's a Baphomet pose.
     
  19. xenomorph4prez

    xenomorph4prez Sanity Assassin

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    It's a popular pose


    Baal
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    Baphomet
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    Devil tarot
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    Pazuzu
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    Reagan possessed by Pazuzu during hypnosis
    [​IMG]

    Peter possessed by Paimon in Hereditary
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre President of the War Room

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    I'll strike one next time I'm feeling demonic. :)
     

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