SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 120: Eyes Wide Shut

[moreorless87]

Got around to watching it a little late and generally I'll say I'm very impressed, certainly a far better film than I always suspected it might be. In some ways I can see how that reputation spread as it does feel more like a Kubrick film sandwiched into a more conventional(but still very effective) one.

It does still hold for me that like other Kubricks the film isn't aiming at some very specific conspiracy theory style message but something less specific obviously linking into the lead characters stories. The various little odds and ends to me just seem like comments on the sex industry, the risk of HIV, dodgy foreign sex trafficking and entrapment, etc than pieces to a puzzle. I mean you look at the conclusion of the film and to me it almost seems like Kubrick having a bit of a pop at the more conspiratorial readings of his films relating it to Cruises fantasy to sooth his bruised ego.

What you could say I spose is that this theme maybe isn't the weightiest possible? its certainly very common but if you compare it to the obviously Kubrick inspired Birth also staring Kidman looking at suppressed grief that does hit harder for me. The gender politics in the pot argument could also maybe be viewed as rather simplistic but perhaps deliberately so? having them both high talking like potheads philosophising. For Kurbrick as well it does actually seem like quite a positive message, I mean "we need to fuck" can sound a little blunt but what comes before does paint it as more than that.

In terms of the mechanics of it Cruise wasn't actually called to THAT much I'd say although he delivered when needed and Kidman was excellent. The general look of the film was certainly interesting to see Kubrick trying to shoot so conventionally rather than his typically harsh minimalism. Certainly I think he showed a good deal of ability here although perhaps deliberately limiting himself to provide an obvious jump between the rest of the film as the manor scene more in his typical style. I did enjoy the way this wasn't too jarring in that you have a gradually ramping up and down of the visuals rather than jumping straight from one style to another.

Interesting to consider I spose what was viewed as "sexy" or not, the attempted seduction of Kidman I think was definitely filmed in that fashion obviously playing it relative to her disconnection to Cruise . A lot of the nudity such as the OD was obviously looking to have a bit of a knock at sexual obsession showing in an a very unsexy fashion. As far as the mansion goes the main thing that came to kind of be was how Helmut Newton influenced it was, look at his work(not on a work PC obviously) like Sie Kommen or a lot of the Big Nudes and there very much in this style IMHO. Interesting I spose what you think this means to how the scene is viewed because really to me it doesn't show the women as powerless but actually very powerful, more like dominatrix's than helpless slaves.

 

[moreorless87]

I was thinking more that he's completely blind to her longing for affection.

And the whole bathroom scene makes it seem that he's going through the motions with her. Ie: not looking at her.

I think you could argue that actually more of the substance of the film comes from her character (and arguably the major criticism of it that we don't get enough focus on it)than Cruise getting over his ego. To me the dream she describes clearly seems to point to someone both feeling a strong sense of shame and low self esteem. On the sexual side she's obviously not prudish but doesn't seem to have come to terms with her own desires rather than just being the object of desire. Equally though I think being in a relationship with a seeming power imbalance and resentful of it, Cruise is the successful one and she is the failure(gallery going bust) who's role is to be a mother and be protected and provided for.

You could argue what changes by the end isn't just that Cruise shows her more affection but that he's actually shown some weakness infront of her, the suggestion that the relationship will be more emotionally balanced and open in the future.

Going back to the cult as well I think you see the suggestion that its not what it appears to be right from the start with the way Nighgale's playing is shown in such an absurd fashion undermining a sense of gradure.

 

[Yotsuya]

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

We need this guy in the club.



That's some attention to detail!

 

[chickenluver]

Nicold Kidman's father, Antony Kidman was accused of being in a pedo ring but he died in a Singapore hotel before anything happened with that. I'm not saying its true, I have no way of knowing that but anything to do with sexual abuse and Hollywood is believable.

There don't appear to be any credible accusations of this.

His daughter may have been an actor who went to Hollywood, but the man himself was a psychologist and biochemist who lived in Sydney, Australia. Bit of a stretch to cite him and say anything to do with Hollywood and sexual abuse is possible.

I looked around and found this information on a guys blog.

We also see Milich’s daughter do this controversial whisper into Bill’s ear. It is said that the subtitles show the dialogue:


‘You Should Have a Cloak Lined with Ermine’

That dialogue is telling him to get a cloak that’s lined with a certain pattern, which is found to be in possession of royal monarchy. This reinforces the theory that there is a privileged elite and bloodline tied to these characters.

I'm not convinced she says that. My own DVD of the film only says "inaudible dialogue" when the subtitles are switched on.

Also ermine does not indicate a specific pattern, it just means the luxury white fur of a specific type of Irish weasel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoat

"The name ermine is used for any species in the genus Mustela, especially the stoat, in its pure white winter coat, or the fur thereof.[2]"

"Ermine luxury fur was used in the 15th century by Catholic monarchs, who sometimes used it as the mozzetta cape. It was also used in capes on images such as the Infant Jesus of Prague."

The planet Venus was known to the ancients as the “Light Bearer” because Venus appears in the sky each morning before the sun rises. In ancient Greco-Roman mythology Venus was the goddess of love, sexuality, and procreation. The goddess Venus, the “Light Bearer” was called Luc-ferre, or Lucifer in Latin.

Kubrick is telling us that this particular cult worships Ishtar/Venus, known as the light bearer, A.K.A. Satan. The two statues in the picture above are holding up the lights, that coupled with the party with the 8 pointed stars, it seems incontrovertible that this is about elite people and a specific type of worship.

Venus / Lucifer "the light-bearer" is not synonymous with Satan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

"Some Christian writers have applied the name "Lucifer" as used in the Book of Isaiah, and the motif of a heavenly being cast down to the earth, to Satan. Sigve K Tonstad argues that the New Testament War in Heaven theme of Revelation 12:7–9, in which the dragon "who is called the devil and Satan … was thrown down to the earth", was derived from the passage about the Babylonian king in Isaiah 14.[61] Origen (184/185 – 253/254) interpreted such Old Testament passages as being about manifestations of the Devil; but writing in Greek, not Latin, he did not identify the devil with the name "Lucifer".[62][63][64][65] Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 225), who wrote in Latin, also understood Isaiah 14:14 ("I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High") as spoken by the Devil,[66] but "Lucifer" is not among the numerous names and phrases he used to describe the devil.[67] Even at the time of the Latin writer Augustine of Hippo (354–430), "Lucifer" had not yet become a common name for the Devil.[62]

Some time later, the metaphor of the morning star that Isaiah 14:12 applied to a king of Babylon gave rise to the general use of the Latin word for "morning star", capitalized, as the original name of the devil before his fall from grace, linking Isaiah 14:12 with Luke 10:18 ("I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven") and interpreting the passage in Isaiah as an allegory of Satan's fall from heaven.[68][69]

As a result, "Lucifer has become a byword for Satan or the Devil in the church and in popular literature",[1] as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno, Joost van den Vondel's Lucifer, and John Milton's Paradise Lost.[43] However, unlike the English word, the Latin word was not used exclusively in this way and was applied to others also, including Jesus.[70]

Adherents of the King James Only movement and others who hold that Isaiah 14:12 does indeed refer to the devil have decried the modern translations.[71][72][73][74][75][76] Jealousy of humans, created in the divine image and given authority over the world is the motive that a modern writer, who denies that there is any such person as Lucifer, says that Tertullian attributed to the devil,[77] and, while he cited Tertullian and Augustine as giving envy as the motive for the fall, an 18th-century French Capuchin preacher himself described the rebel angel as jealous of Adam's exaltation, which he saw as a diminution of his own status.[76]

However, the understanding of the morning star in Isaiah 14:12 as a metaphor referring to a king of Babylon continued also to exist among Christians. Theodoret of Cyrus (c. 393 – c. 457) wrote that Isaiah calls the king "morning star", not as being the star, but as having had the illusion of being it.[78] The same understanding is shown in Christian translations of the passage, which in English generally use "morning star" rather than treating the word as a proper name, "Lucifer". So too in other languages, such as French,[79] German,[80] Portuguese,[81] and Spanish.[82] Even the Vulgate text in Latin is printed with lower-case lucifer (morning star), not upper-case Lucifer (proper name).[3]

Calvin said: "The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance: for the context plainly shows these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians."[83] Luther also considered it a gross error to refer this verse to the devil.[84]"

 

[chickenluver]

I'm not understanding where people got this idea that 20 minutes were cut from the film. There seems to be some debate about exactly what state of completion the film was in when Kubrick died, but nothing I can see about significant content being cut from the movie.

The censorship that was done was to digitally place people that block the views of the most explicit scenes during the mansion orgy. This may have been legally necessary since the film was contractually obligated to be R-rated. This was really only done for the US theatrical release anyway. Outside the US it was shown non-censored, and later home video releases were also non-censored in the US or otherwise.

 

[Seaside]

The illuminati killed him for making a movie exposing what they do. That is my theory.

 

[MescalineDreams]

NOTE to NON-MEMBERS: Interested in joining the SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB? Shoot me a PM for more info!

Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC. Or if you prefer, here's a more detailed examination.

Isn't Eyes Wide Shut an oxymoron?

​

Our Director

Stanley Kubrick

​

Eyes Wide Shut is our fifth Stanley Kubrick movie on the SMC. After Barry Lyndon, Dr. Strangelove, A Clockwork Orange, and his most famous film, Cockneys vs Zombies. Making him easily the most prolific director in this club.

Our Stars

Tommy Cruise

Nicole Kidman

​

Film Overview

Premise: A New York City doctor, who is married to an art curator, pushes himself on a harrowing and dangerous night-long odyssey of sexual and moral discovery after his wife admits that she once almost cheated on him.


Budget: $65 million
Box Office: $162.1 million
​

Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)​

* The password "fidelio" (from the Latin root "fidelis" meaning "faithful") is the title of Ludwig van Beethoven's only opera. In the opera, Fidelio is a woman who disguises herself as a man to save her lover.

* Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman signed open-ended contracts. They agreed to work on this project until Stanley Kubrick released them from it, however long that turned out to be.

* This movie spent almost a year in post-production.

* Appeared in the Guinness Book of Records with the record for "The Longest Constant Movie Shoot", at four hundred days.

* Stanley Kubrick reportedly watched movies like Showgirls (1995), Basic Instinct (1992), and Fatal Attraction (1987) during the editing phase, to get the idea of how explicit the sex scenes in the movie could be and still retain the R-rated movie he had contractually agreed to deliver.

* The Jocelyn Pook composition playing during the ceremony at the masked ball is a fragment of an Orthodox mass played backwards; the voices are singing in Romanian.

* In a few shots of Tom Cruise walking through the city, background plates of actual New York City streets were projected behind the actor walking on a treadmill.

* When Tom Cruise's character is interrogated before the attendants of the orgy, and when he returns to the mansion, the mysterious, sinister music that is heard was first used in the David Niven film, A Matter of Life and Death (1946) when Niven's character is being judged in Heaven.

​

Members: @europe1 @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Cubo de Sangre @sickc0d3r @FrontNakedChoke @AndersonsFoot @Tufts @Coolthulu @Yotsuya @jei @LHWBelt @Deus Ex Machina @ArtemV @Bullitt68

great movie

It's a must to rewatch It several times.

There are layers of meaning encoded within

 

[MescalineDreams]

View attachment 443303

They all have excellent posture

 

[chickenluver]

@MusterX have you read a comic book by Alan Moore called From Hell? I think you would find it interesting. It has some thematic similarities to Eyes Wide Shut. It's built for down-the-rabbit-hole theories and openly embraces them. Good read all around. Avoid the film adaptation.

 

[MusterX]

@MusterX have you read a comic book by Alan Moore called From Hell? I think you would find it interesting. It has some thematic similarities to Eyes Wide Shut. It's built for down-the-rabbit-hole theories and openly embraces them. Good read all around. Avoid the film adaptation.

I have not but now I want to.

 

[Deleted member 499399]

I just first watched this a few weeks ago and I’m on my third watch now. I’m having a great time with it. It’s so interesting. So many different angles.
On the surface it’s a sexy thriller. Over the course of a few nights a couple has a bunch of sexy adventures and when they get through it their relationship is stronger. It’s really good for one of those films.
There is all the ct and secret society stuff. I don’t think Kubrick was sending us a message about the evil underworld but he obviously created the cult to resemble the lore that goes with these things. I don’t know much about it but it’s very cool to see how deep some of this stuff goes.
The movie is a joy to watch. Every scene is glowing Christmas lights and naked models walking around in mansions filled with fine art and furniture. The acting is underrated. Cruise and Kidman are great but there are so many great performances from all the crazy side characters. Some of my favorites are the roommates, the costume shop guy and the hotel desk guy.
After the second watching I have a better understanding of what Alice is up to. I think she is mostly innocent. When she flirts with Sandor she keeps looking for Bill. She is doing a bad bad thing right under his nose and he is too busy following the 2 models to worry what his stunning wife is up to. He is ignoring her like he did when she asked how she looked because he takes her for granted. She tells him about the sailor to make him admit the truth that he wanted to fuck the models. She wants him to be truthful and honest with her or “take off his mask” which he eventually does.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned much in the thread is the idea that all of Bills adventures are a dream. There seems to be a lot mirroring of images from his night out and other scenes and all of strangeness about the storefronts signs and what not changing at different times as well as Bill taking a cab from the jazz club to the Rainbow costume shop but you can see that the jazz club is across the street.
It’s easy to tie the dream theory to the Wizard of Oz and Alice through the Looking Glass as those were both dreams where the characters were reflections of people or things in the real world. And the confusing exchange Bill and Alice have in the end about dreams being only dreams “Am I sure? Only as sure as I am... ...that the reality of one night... ...let alone that of a whole lifetime... ...can ever be the whole truth. And no dream is ever... ...just a dream. The important thing is... ...we're awake now...”

 

[Kowboy Karl]

I apologize in advance for this post but Kubrick leaves me no choice.

Firstly, I want to say that the 2:38 run time seems justified, its a long movie but necessary to tell the story and it didn't seem overly long to me which is the sign of excellent film making. Secondly, Eyes Wide Shut is pound for pound the most orgy filled, titty filled movie in SMC history.

Eyes Wide Shut is a film about the Illuminati, its about black magic, sex magic, and the elite circles that engage in these things. The cover of the film is Nicole Kidman with one eye symbolism, Illuminati. It is also framed in a mirror which is an occult item used to contact other realms, demon possession, portals etc.

We need to establish that this is not just about perverted rich people that like sex. This film is about sex magic, there are rituals taking place. At the end of the film when Alice and Bill take their daughter Helana to the store to shop, they walk by a game called Magic Circle.

So we know that the film is about secret societies, namely the Illuminati, and its also about magic rituals, black mass, and sex magic. I want to back up some though. The film takes place during Christmas and that really had me thinking, why did Kubrick choose Christmas? As it turns out, Christmas is during a time of the year when Rome would have been celebrating both Christmas as well as pagan holidays. One such holiday was called Saturnalia.

Saturnalia is about the worship of Saturn and would take place between December 17th-23rd, the exact time period Eyes Wide Shut appears to take place during. It also involved a sacrifice.

Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival in honour of the god Saturn, held on 17 December of the Julian calendar and later expanded with festivities through to 23 December. The holiday was celebrated with a sacrifice at the Temple of Saturn, in the Roman Forum, and a public banquet, followed by private gift-giving, continual partying, and a carnival atmosphere that overturned Roman social norms: gambling was permitted, and masters provided table service for their slaves.[1]

So the season specifically seems to be during a very particular time period. Let go back to the beginning of the film before it gets all twisted. The first party was thrown by Dr. Victor Ziegle, played by Sydney Pollack, who later warns Bill to stfu about what he saw. At Ziegler's party there are 8 pointed stars everywhere, also known as stars of Venus or stars of the Babylonian god Ishtar. Ishtar is the god of sex.

The nod here is toward the fact the elite are into ancient teachings and beliefs. Ishtar is the goddess of sex, war, and other things. Also known as the star of Venus, it is thought that prostitution was celebrated during their festivals. There was other symbolism at the initial party. This is where things go off the rails. Kubrick placed everything in this film carefully and deliberately. In the same way the element of debauchery in this film will not appeal to @europe1, everything I present from here forward will likely offend the sensibilities of @Bullitt68 and his film school training. Nevertheless, I cannot ignore what Kubrick is presenting. Lets address first, the character of Nick Nightingale, the old friend from medical school and pianist. His name is the symbol in this case. We see him playing the piano at Victor Ziegler's party, the club, as well as the occult secret party.

Nightingale's are birds that sing at night during breeding season.

night·in·gale
[ˈnītnˌɡāl, ˈnīdiNGˌɡāl]
NOUN

1. a small European thrush with drab brownish plumage, noted for the rich melodious song of the male, heard especially at night in breeding season.

The two girls at the first party asked Bill, "don't you want to go where the rainbow ends?" The girl named Nuala, played by Stewart Thorndike was particularly stunning.

The two girls are obviously part of the cult and when they ask Cruise if he wants to go where the rainbow ends its a specific reference to The Wizard of Oz. Later in the film, the costume shop was called Rainbow with a caption that says "under the rainbow" instead of over the rainbow like in the classic song.

Look at this shot of Cruise under the rainbow. He is getting his costume to go exactly where the girls asked him if he wanted to go.

The Wizard of Oz has been connected by various people to MKULTRA, mind control and sexual abuse. Frank Baum, the author of The Wizard of Oz was a member of the Theosophical Society which is an occult religion/secret society. The Theosophical Society was founded by occultist H.P. Blavatsky who wrote a periodical called Lucifer. Later on Lucifer Publishing changed their name to Lucis Trust and became the publisher for the United Nations. You could not make this shit up, the publishing company for the U.N. is Lucifer Publishing. The connections between the Thesophical Society, Frank Baum, The Wizard of Oz, and Stanley Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut is evident. If that isn't enough to convince you, the owner of the Rainbow costume shop was selling his underage daughter.

There is more though and I think its worth mentioning. Aleister Crowley wrote a one page essay called Liber Oz, Chapter 77.

Think this is completely in left field? Crowley was well known for his writings concerning sex magic and sex rituals. Read what Liber Oz says, especially #4 and #5. So here is this connection again with Oz, sex, violence, and the occult. Why did Crowley call it Chapter 77? The meaning of 77 in numerology also sounds like Eyes Wide Shut.

The energy represented by the numerology number 77 is, foremost, an energy of expression of personal freedom. 77 is introspective, but also adventurous and sensual and spiritual so long as its expression of personal freedom isn't restrained. 77 is interested in pretty much everything. It especially appreciates sensual experiences...

Moving on, Bill arrives at the secret party, the sign outside simply says Somerton. It seems almost inconceivable to me that Kubrick is not referring specifically to the Rothschild family and their famous 1972 party at Mentmore Towers. Mentmore was built in the 1800's for the Rothschilds and when they held their party in 1972 they lit the outside of it in red.

The grand hall looks very similar to the Eyes Wide Shut location with a balcony above for people to look down from.

Some pics from the party.

After Cruise goes to the party Kidman tells him of her nightmare where they were in an unknown location naked and she was terrified and she was angry because it was Cruise's fault. She somehow dreamed that she was naked and surrounded by people watching her have sex with many men but how did this happen? How did she dream what Cruise saw? She tells Cruise she wanted to laugh in his face so she laughed as loud as she could.

This is the Kubrick universe and one thing that might explain it is The Shining, which is knowing things, she also knew where his wallet was. She also interrupts him with a phone call just as he is about to sleep with the prostitute Domino. It may be a stretch but it explains how she dreamed what Cruise saw.

When the bald man follows Bill after he goes to see Domino, he passes by a restaurant with the address 237, a reference to The Shining's room 237. Bill stops at a newsstand and the paper he picks up has the headline of "Lucky to be alive." He proceeds into a coffee shop to elude the bald man and he opens the paper. We can clearly see the front says Lucky to be alive and inside on the page he opened to you can see one word in bold block letters, Party. He reads an article about a beauty queen rushed to the hospital with an overdose named Amanda Curran, Mandy.

In the final scene when Alice and Bill take Helena to the toy store, Helena walks off with two men who were also seen at Zeigler's party. This is perhaps the most disturbing and missed part of the film. The pic is not very clear but its them. Helena walks away with them as her parents continue to talk. One final weird statement by Cruise concerning Kidman's dream of the party, he tells her, "sometimes a dream isn't just a dream." Possibly meaning she is somehow psychic, or has "the shining."

There is more stuff but I've used all the pics a single post will allow me to use.

most thorough post in history

thanks

gonna watch again with all my new clues

 

[MusterX]

most thorough post in history

thanks

gonna watch again with all my new clues

Kubrick layered a deep amount of symbolism and hints in his films. His attention to detail was supposedly second to none. If you see a piece of art on the wall, or a vase of flowers on the table, etc. in a Kubrick film, every item in the scene was either picked by Kubrick himself or approved by Kubrick. Nothing is "by accident" in a Kubrick film.

 

[Kowboy Karl]

Kubrick layered a deep amount of symbolism and hints in his films. His attention to detail was supposedly second to none. If you see a piece of art on the wall, or a vase of flowers on the table, etc. in a Kubrick film, every item in the scene was either picked by Kubrick himself or approved by Kubrick. Nothing is "by accident" in a Kubrick film.

i mean im sure you did a deep dive and cited others references but still you crushed it and made me wanna watch again. Ill probably pretend i noticed all this on my own and seem wise.

sherbless

 

[MusterX]

i mean im sure you did a deep dive and cited others references but still you crushed it and made me wanna watch again. Ill probably pretend i noticed all this on my own and seem wise.

sherbless

Oh I for sure took the deep dive. There is actually a lot more. I didn't know it at the time but over time this became one of my favorite Kubrick films. It seems incredibly relevant to something that actually goes on in the real world. There was even a conspiracy that the "people in charge", or illuminati, or whatever group you like, was mad about this film and wanted him dead, and that maybe he was murdered. (I don't think he was murdered)

If you want to see some more wild stuff associated with this film, check out post #70

 

[Kowboy Karl]

Oh I for sure took the deep dive. There is actually a lot more. I didn't know it at the time but over time this became one of my favorite Kubrick films. It seems incredibly relevant to something that actually goes on in the real world. There was even a conspiracy that the "people in charge", or illuminati, or whatever group you like, was mad about this film and wanted him dead, and that maybe he was murdered. (I don't think he was murdered)

If you want to see some more wild stuff associated with this film, check out post #70

ive only done deep dives like this on the movie aliens which is interesting if youre a fan…. Its called like aliens fandom and describes every detail of every planet ship mission etc.

that and fighter planes.

this was way cooler.

thanks again

 

[sickc0d3r]

Easily one of my all time favorite movie club threads. Up there with Coherence and Prisoners.

 

[Kowboy Karl]

Currently diving with domino

 

[Deleted member 499399]

View attachment 943664 Currently diving with domino

You won’t have to go far. Her place is right down the street.