SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 102: A Clockwork Orange

[europe1]

NOTE to NON-MEMBERS: Interested in joining the SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB? Shoot me a PM for more info.

Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC.

“Our pockets were full of deng, so there was no real need from the point of view of crasting any more pretty polly to tolchock some old veck in an alley and viddy him swim in his blood while we counted the takings and divided by four, nor to do the ultra-violent on some shivering starry grey-haired ptitsa in a shop and go smecking off with the till's guts. But, as they say, money isn’t everything.”

Our Director​

​

​

​

A Clockwork Orange is directed by STANLEY KUBRICK. We've already watched Barry Lyndon and Dr. Strangelove. With this movie, it makes him the most reaccuring director in this club's entire history.

But here's a little more info. . .

Kubrick was born in New York in 1928 and, at an early age, displayed an interest in literature, photography and film. After graduating high school he taught himself the art of filmmaking and began making short films on shoestring budgets. This lead to his to his first major Hollywood feature, The Killing, in 1956. He then went on to collaborate with Kirk Douglas on Paths of Glory and Spartacus.

Due to his growing frustration with Hollywood and the film studios, as well as a concern over an increase in crime in the United States, he moved to the UK in 1961 where he spent most of the rest of his life and career. Just because he's Stanley Kubrick, and fucking awesome, he was essentially able to work from England with a great deal of creative control over his films while still being financed by Hollywood.

While often regarded as masterpieces in hindsight, many of Kubrick's movies were met with mixed reviews from critics upon their release. Nevertheless, most of his films have been nominated for Oscars, Golden Globes and/or BAFTA awards.

As a director, Kubrick was known to be very demanding, especially in regard to the number of takes he would require from his actors. Jack Nicholson said that it was common for Kubrick to want 50 takes of a scene. Of this, Kubrick once said, "Actors are essentially emotion-producing instruments, and some are always tuned and ready while others will reach a fantastic pitch on one take and never equal it again, no matter how hard they try."

Malcolm McDowell
​

Malcolm McDowell: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000532/

Film Overview


Premise: In the future, a sadistic gang leader is imprisoned and volunteers for a conduct-aversion experiment, but it doesn't go as planned.



Budget: $2.2 million (shadow take note)
Box Office: $26.6 million (North American only)

​

Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)

​

* Malcolm McDowell's eyes were anesthetized for the torture scenes so that he would film for periods of time without too much discomfort. Nevertheless his corneas got repeatedly scratched by the metal lid locks.

* The snake, Basil, was introduced into the film by Stanley Kubrick when he found out Malcolm McDowell had a fear of reptiles. The stated purpose was to make McDowell's character seem more intimidating, but secondarily it functioned as a practical joke by Kubrick.

* The doctor standing over Alex as he is being forced to watch violent films was a real doctor, ensuring that Malcolm McDowell's eyes didn't dry up.

*Alex performing "Singing in the Rain" as he attacks the writer and his wife was not scripted. Stanley Kubrick spent four days experimenting with this scene, finding it too conventional. Eventually he approached Malcolm McDowell and asked him if he could dance. They tried the scene again, this time with McDowell dancing and singing the only song he could remember. Kubrick was so amused that he swiftly bought the rights to "Singing in the Rain" for $10,000.

* When Malcolm McDowell met Gene Kelly at a party several years later, the older star turned and walked away in disgust. Kelly was deeply upset about the way his signature from Singin' in the Rain (1952) had been portrayed in Clockwork Orange (1971).

* Before the rape scene was filmed, Adrienne Corri walked up to Malcolm McDowell and said, "Well, Malcolm, today you're going to find out I'm a real redhead".

* Filming the rape scene was so difficult for the actress originally cast in the role that she quit. The part was recast with Adrienne Corri, who was said to have been furious at the large number of takes that Stanley Kubrick required, feeling it ought to have been done swiftly. Malcolm McDowell, however, has stated that Corri was very "game" about the brief but difficult role throughout filming.​

Members: @shadow_priest_x @europe1 @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Cubo de Sangre @sickc0d3r @chickenluver @FrontNakedChoke @AndersonsFoot @Tufts

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

A Clockwork Orange. How do I love thee? Let me count the (more significant) ways (in no particular order).

1. Your central theme is free will and how it helps define what it is to be human. Whether or not we make our own decisions is possibly the most fundamental question in life and the answer shapes our other philosophies. Of course there’s no more compelling backdrop to frame such philosophical ground than the choice between good and evil.
2. You paint government as the bad guy. Fuck the man.
3. You take a truly sadistic character who does no good for anyone and make him sympathetic by giving him a boyish face, charm, wit, and a zest for living life to its fullest.
4. You open with a tour d’ force in debauchery. Drugs, violence, sex, more violence, sex, drugs and appreciation for music. Some of my favorite things.
5. Your masterful use of changing film speeds at just the right moments.
6. Your ability to cover the spectrum of crime, punishment, rehabilitation, retribution, redemption in a story that’s not really even about that.
7. Your alternate universe with the style of clothing and odd slang. Even without speaking it, you still gave me enough Nadsat to be curious and intrigued while always providing enough context to keep the meaning clear.
8. Your ability to use music to set the proper tone. From the first ominous note as we pan back from Alex’ face to the whimsical sounds playing as Billy Boy’s gang was about to commit rape to Singing in the Rain bringing up the end credits as Alex celebrates being cured. A soundtrack can’t fit and elevate a movie any more than it does here.
9. You oddball characters like Mr. Deltoid that add to your surreal nature. The prison warder being like an early version of Gunny in Full Metal Jacket. The preacher who represents the moral of the film. Dim who repeats the trailing bits of what he’s just heard.
10. Your symmetry of story in bringing the pre-prison characters together two years later when circumstances had changed for all. And my how fortunes had changed.
11. Your X-rating and political controversy coupled with your box office and critical success.
12. Your ability to still be shocking and provocative nearly 50 years later. As well as managing to still not feel dated.
13. Your perfect use of humble and honest narration to both further the story and help Alex win the audience over.
14. You were made by an absolute genius who is in the discussion for being the greatest ever craftsman of his type.
15. That I saw you at the age of 14-15 and have never once wavered in that feeling that you are my cinematic soulmate.

 

[europe1]

For the record -- I haven't rewatched A Clockwork Orange yet. So I might be missing something additive or contradictory in this argument and some details might be fuzzy. However, I wanted to crank this one out so I'll write it anyways.

When people discuss A Clockwork Orange, they often seem to talk about the issues of Free Will vs man's propensity towards violence. However, to me, I think that there is a societal theme that is likewise very interesting that seems to be underdiscused. That Alex is a product of the culture that surrounds him.

The society that A Clockwork Orange takes place in is pretty fucked up.




I would first like to highlight something about this scene. Alex is meeting his counselor (Mister Deltoid). During this scene, after getting handsy, the counselor grasps Alex's package and gives it a painful squeeze. However, no one reacts as you would suspect during all this. This counselor basically has just sexually molested a youth, yet there is very little fanfare about this. Therefore, one would naturally conclude that this isn't the first time this has happened. In fact, it's probably a regular occurance. This counselor for teenagers reguarly molest Alex -- and most likely other adoloscents as well, judging by how much he seems to enjoy it.

So the Counselor is basically corrupt -- and he is so casually corrupt that no one reacts to it. However, it seems that the same is true for policemen. Alex's Droogs manage to become cops despite being known as violent delinquents. And once in uniform -- they are at liberty to torture Alex without seeming much fear of reprimands or punishment. Swell justice system, huh?

Alex's parents seems to have little concrete idea of what he is up to. And likewise, don't do much to stop or guide him or even figure him out. They neither even seem aware that the counselor is sexually molesting him. Not excactly parents that take their parential responsibility.

Also, look at the "culture" of this period. Its utterly decadent. At many places we see tables made out of naked women. There is nudist art in the stairways of Alex's apartment building. Citizens are inundated with lewd and sexually depraved imagery.

Even more interesting -- look at the scene where Alex kills the artist. Sure, he breaks into her house. Yet it is she who attacks him, and quite aggressively and callously so. And look at the art she's making -- just like the other art in the film its hypersexualized.

This is very interesting since in the novel -- the artist never attacks Alex as she does in the film. She tries to get Alex to leave her house and then he basically uses it as justification to the reader why he was right in killing her. Kubrick purposely changed it so to make her the belligerant one -- and needless to say, none of that decadent art was in the novel either.

And lastly, gang warfare seems to be boming. And the goverment doesn't seem to be above acting callous either, being rotten to the core (as with the corrupt police and the counselor). Also they are not above torturing Alex when he's helpless (even getting a naked woman in on the action, which is just straight up mean).

Alex may be a monster. But he is a monster living in a monster world. Sort of like Monsters Inc! Only with sexualized tables.


What's important to consider is that most of these things are new to the movie. They were not in the novel. Kubrick deliberately added them to his film.

So to me, it seems like Alex's evil behavior and sadism is more a "natural" reaction to growing up in a decadent, corrupt and violent environment. The government wants to curtail his evil, even while they themselves seem to much be the vessel which has cultivated such a person in the first place.



I'm sure this argument would be better articulated if I actually rewatched the film before writting it.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

So to me, it seems like Alex's evil behavior and sadism is more a "natural" reaction to growing up in a decadent, corrupt and violent environment. The government wants to curtail his evil, even while they themselves seem to much be the vessel which has cultivated such a person in the first place.

Sure, there could be some of that in there. Though I seriously doubt Kubrick is suggesting we let Alex off the hook because society made him do bad things. That's the opposite of the key message of the film (i.e. the importance of choice to humanity). But for sure some of those things help create a world where the viewer is more ready to wind up on Alex' side.

Funny note. It's Beethoven that the cat lady starts swinging at Alex.

 

[europe1]

Though I seriously doubt Kubrick is suggesting we let Alex off the hook because society made him do bad things.

Oh of course not! Just because a person has been socialized into something doesn't mean they shouldn't be judged. It just adds another layer to the film. The goverment goes to immoral means to curtail Alex's bloodlust and depravity when they where part in cultivated people like him in the first place. It makes their motivations more hypocritic and lacking in self-reflection (and blind to the true nature of the problem at hand).

Funny note. It's Beethoven that the cat lady starts swinging at Alex.

Man that's just sad! She and Alex share the exact same taste in music. And their personalities seem so similar too. They could probably have been a loving couple if this unfortunate misunderstanding didn't transpire.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Oh of course not! Just because a person has been socialized into something doesn't mean they shouldn't be judged. It just adds another layer to the film. The goverment goes to immoral means to curtail Alex's bloodlust and depravity when they where part in cultivated people like him in the first place. It makes their motivations more hypocritic and lacking in self-reflection (and blind to the true nature of the problem at hand).



Man that's just sad! She and Alex share the exact same taste in music. And their personalities seem so similar too. They could probably have been a loving couple if this unfortunate misunderstanding didn't transpire.

That makes sense. Plus you've got politicians trying to erase their mistake by paying Alex off with a cushy job. Society and government certainly receive some scrutiny in the film. You observation is maybe best summed up in this scene where the bum indicts society at large. I like how Alex seems to take a slight bit of offense. After all, he loves life and the world he lives in.




They'd be a regular Harold & Maude.

 

[moreorless87]

I find it interesting that Kubrick looked to so much modernism in his dystopia. I mean its easy to look back now and see those kinds of deveolpments as leading to social decay but in 1970 this was still the kind of development that was being pushed as utopian. I spose you could argue not just prediction on his part but also playing into the idea of Alex's life pre "treatment" being much more fantastical in setting before becoming far more mundane afterwards.

The best use of slow motion in film history?



A little OT but the clearest early sign of Jonathan Glazer's Kubrick obcession was....

 

[Andersons Foot]

Everything about this movie made me feel so uneasy. I don't think I've come across anyone who relates to that. Mister Deltoid, the aversion therapy, the weird futuristic vibe of everything. I don't know that Kubrick was shooting for that, but it's what I felt throughout.

I don't know what an acid trip feels like, but I feel like this movie is what a moderate acid trip would be like, if that's a thing. It's not going to blow your mind with crazy visuals or anything, it's more subtle. The odd characters, the colors, the music, etc. Idk. It's tough to describe.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I find it interesting that Kubrick looked to so much modernism in his dystopia. I mean its easy to look back now and see those kinds of deveolpments as leading to social decay but in 1970 this was still the kind of development that was being pushed as utopian. I spose you could argue not just prediction on his part but also playing into the idea of Alex's life pre "treatment" being much more fantastical in setting before becoming far more mundane afterwards.

The best use of slow motion in film history?

What elements are associated with modernism?

I'm confident in saying it's unsurpassed.

Everything about this movie made me feel so uneasy. I don't think I've come across anyone who relates to that.

Nice that it had an effect on you. Relate to what? Unease?

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Been super busy with work the past few days, haven't had a chance to watch it yet.

Sorry! Will watch it ASAP

 

[moreorless87]

What elements are associated with modernism??

That scene shot on the southbank in London most obviously, the tramp beating as well and Alex living in a modern block of flats.

A suitable Kubrickian documentary on the subject from Jonathan Meades in the 90's...

 

[Andersons Foot]

What elements are associated with modernism?

I'm confident in saying it's unsurpassed.




Nice that it had an effect on you. Relate to what? Unease?

Yeah.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

That scene shot on the southbank in London most obviously, the tramp beating as well and Alex living in a modern block of flats.

A suitable Kubrickian documentary on the subject from Jonathan Meades in the 90's...

You're referring mostly to the architecture? I'll need to check the video out later.

Yeah.

For sure the subject matter is challenging. The violence should be repulsive to the viewer in order to properly assess the morality of the Ludovico Technique.

 

[the muntjac]

For the record -- I haven't rewatched A Clockwork Orange yet. So I might be missing something additive or contradictory in this argument and some details might be fuzzy. However, I wanted to crank this one out so I'll write it anyways.

When people discuss A Clockwork Orange, they often seem to talk about the issues of Free Will vs man's propensity towards violence. However, to me, I think that there is a societal theme that is likewise very interesting that seems to be underdiscused. That Alex is a product of the culture that surrounds him.

The society that A Clockwork Orange takes place in is pretty fucked up.




I would first like to highlight something about this scene. Alex is meeting his counselor (Mister Deltoid). During this scene, after getting handsy, the counselor grasps Alex's package and gives it a painful squeeze. However, no one reacts as you would suspect during all this. This counselor basically has just sexually molested a youth, yet there is very little fanfare about this. Therefore, one would naturally conclude that this isn't the first time this has happened. In fact, it's probably a regular occurance. This counselor for teenagers reguarly molest Alex -- and most likely other adoloscents as well, judging by how much he seems to enjoy it.

So the Counselor is basically corrupt -- and he is so casually corrupt that no one reacts to it. However, it seems that the same is true for policemen. Alex's Droogs manage to become cops despite being known as violent delinquents. And once in uniform -- they are at liberty to torture Alex without seeming much fear of reprimands or punishment. Swell justice system, huh?

Alex's parents seems to have little concrete idea of what he is up to. And likewise, don't do much to stop or guide him or even figure him out. They neither even seem aware that the counselor is sexually molesting him. Not excactly parents that take their parential responsibility.

Also, look at the "culture" of this period. Its utterly decadent. At many places we see tables made out of naked women. There is nudist art in the stairways of Alex's apartment building. Citizens are inundated with lewd and sexually depraved imagery.

Even more interesting -- look at the scene where Alex kills the artist. Sure, he breaks into her house. Yet it is she who attacks him, and quite aggressively and callously so. And look at the art she's making -- just like the other art in the film its hypersexualized.

This is very interesting since in the novel -- the artist never attacks Alex as she does in the film. She tries to get Alex to leave her house and then he basically uses it as justification to the reader why he was right in killing her. Kubrick purposely changed it so to make her the belligerant one -- and needless to say, none of that decadent art was in the novel either.

And lastly, gang warfare seems to be boming. And the goverment doesn't seem to be above acting callous either, being rotten to the core (as with the corrupt police and the counselor). Also they are not above torturing Alex when he's helpless (even getting a naked woman in on the action, which is just straight up mean).

Alex may be a monster. But he is a monster living in a monster world. Sort of like Monsters Inc! Only with sexualized tables.


What's important to consider is that most of these things are new to the movie. They were not in the novel. Kubrick deliberately added them to his film.

So to me, it seems like Alex's evil behavior and sadism is more a "natural" reaction to growing up in a decadent, corrupt and violent environment. The government wants to curtail his evil, even while they themselves seem to much be the vessel which has cultivated such a person in the first place.



I'm sure this argument would be better articulated if I actually rewatched the film before writting it.

Pretty much everything I came to say about the film has just been said by you, so basically you're just going to hear an echo now.

-The film presents Alex as a product of society. He lives in a shabby area, and his parents don't seem to instill any real authoritative control over him or aren't bothered to take a real interest in his life. His mom lets him blow off school, and his parents just take his word that he has a night job when he's really out committing crime. He seems to have free control to do whatever he wants without any repercussion from them.
-His counselor, Mr. Deltoid, realizes he's a troubled youth, but he doesn't actually try to give him any real guidance outside of warning Alex that what he's doing will get him in trouble, something Alex already understands, but warnings alone never really stop people from doing the things they do. Also, Mr. Deltoid is a pervert and sexual harasser himself. Even after Alex is caught red-handed for murdering the cat lady, Deltoid doesn't do anything to comfort or aid him. He just laughs in his face because Deltoid was well aware that this day would come, and he didn't really try to do anything to stop it.
-When the government is concerned about overcrowded jails, which of course is a great expense, they seek methods that will "cure" inmates and deem them to be free to mingle with the rest of society again. Alex endures torture through the scientific process, and his free will is stripped of him. The priest comes to his defense saying that Alex should be able to resist evil because of moral objections, not through just trying to avoid a feeling of pain and sickness which was cast onto him by the treatment. The government has no time to care about ethical dilemmas. All they care about is if the process made him stop wanting to commit acts of violence and rape, which it does, but at the cost of inadvertently making him feel sick and painful when he hears a Beethoven piece, and it also seemed to make him sick at the thought of any kind of sexual act, whether it be forceful or consensual. The Minister doesn't seem to care because he's only worried about his poll approval. Alex is only being used as a tool for the Minister to have something to boast about for the next election.
-Alex is brutalized by his ex-gangmembers, who are now cops. Those who were once on the wrong side of the law now "uphold" the law.
-After Alex tries to kill himself, the government is seen in a bad light because their "cured boy" was driven to suicide because of the scientific process he was put through. It seems when he was laying up in the hospital during his comatose state, the process was reversed and he no longer suffers from the treatment. The Minister comes to tell him that the "bad" wheelchair man has been locked away, and offers Alex a job with good pay. This act of aiding a criminal who once crippled the wheelchair man and raped his wife is done to, once again, help the Minister out with his polls for the next election because he needs to be in the public's good graces again.
-Because of all of this, Alex is now able to pick right back up where he left off before being jailed. He is "cured."

To me, it seemed being in jail was the right outcome for Alex. Even though it wasn't stopping him from having fantasies of violence and perverse sexual acts, he was restrained from acting any of those desires out since he was locked up. He was quick to fall in line under the authoritative control of the prison guards and was actually staying out of trouble. Perhaps with some actual guidance, he could have eventually been lead to being a morally good person, but politics got in the way.

Good movie. This is the third time I've seen it, and every time I watch it, I pick up on something new. I once had a debate with somebody that this movie lost best picture to The French Connection, and while I think French Connection is a solid film, I don't think it touches A Clockwork Orange, and I argued that even back then, the Academy Awards were out of touch. What do you guys think? A Clockwork Orange or The French Connection?

 

[moreorless87]

Honestly though that Clockwork Orange was even nominated I think points to the Oscars of that era being rather more open minded than they are today, something like say Killing of a Sacred Dear was never going to get near a nomination just in terms of style and content.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The film presents Alex as a product of society.

Can't really agree with that. I think it presents Alex as a uniquely sadistic monster and that's just who he is. Through Mr. Deltoid the film says it's not so much his environment as it's just him.

You've got a good home here, good loving parents, you've got not too bad of a brain. Is it some devil that crawls inside of you?

A Clockwork Orange or The French Connection?

No contest. Not sure on what level French Connection does anything better as a film.

 

[the muntjac]

The prison warder being like an early version of Gunny in Full Metal Jacket. The preacher who represents the moral of the film. Dim who repeats the trailing bits of what he’s just heard.

That main prison guard may by my favorite part of the film. His sudden outburst of shouted anger are hilarious.

Your perfect use of humble and honest narration to both further the story and help Alex win the audience over.

See, I would not say that Alex ever won me over. In the end, he doesn't learn any lesson, and he's not held responsible for any of his past crimes. In fact, he's rewarded in the end. If anything, he's going to be even more sadistic now.

That I saw you at the age of 14-15 and have never once wavered in that feeling that you are my cinematic soulmate.

Jeez, get a room.

 

[the muntjac]

Can't really agree with that. I think it presents Alex as a uniquely sadistic monster and that's just who he is. Through Mr. Deltoid the film says it's not so much his environment as it's just him.

Yes, I should have added in my original post, that he does seem to be bred with a sadistic nature despite his surroundings, but his surroundings and society aren't helping him any. Maybe with the right guidance and control, he could have been steered away from those impulses, but he was never given a chance.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

That main prison guard may by my favorite part of the film. His sudden outburst of shouted anger are hilarious.



See, I would not say that Alex ever won me over. In the end, he doesn't learn any lesson, and he's not held responsible for any of his past crimes. In fact, he's rewarded in the end. If anything, he's going to be even more sadistic now.

After rewatching on Saturday, I've been saying "Shut your filthy hole, you scum!" whenever one of my dogs barks.

Sure, I get that. But what's important is whether or not you think it's better he was returned to his natural state, as opposed to supporting such radical measures to combat crime. He did serve two years, so there's that. But I agree it's not much. He's rewarded for being victimized himself, not for his crimes.

Yes, I should have added in my original post, that he does seem to be bred with a sadistic nature despite his surroundings, but his surroundings and society aren't helping him any. Maybe with the right guidance and control, he could have been steered away from those impulses, but he was never given a chance.

Yeah, society has some issues. I think though that playing those up diminishes the moral of the tale and the genius of the storytelling. I think the story wants you to sympathize with Alex based on relating to the human need for choice and how the government fucked him up on the back-end of things, as opposed to him getting a raw deal from society on the front-end. The omitted 21st chapter of the book might be instructive here. Alex ultimately changes his ways but not really because he got a well-paying government job. Burgess paints it more as a matter of maturation. To emphasize societal influences is to de-emphasize the main theme (i.e. free will's importance to humanity).

 

[the muntjac]

Sure, I get that. But what's important is whether or not you think it's better he was returned to his natural state, as opposed to supporting such radical measures to combat crime. He did serve two years, so there's that. But I agree it's not much. He's rewarded for being victimized himself, not for his crimes.

Yes, at the end he’s being treated as the poor little victim, but his rewards are bestowed because the Minister needs him on his side in order to be back in the public’s good graces. The Minister knows what kind of twisted person Alex is, but what’s more important to him is holding his position in office. Even though the Minister was elected by the people to serve them and do right by them, he’s actually only doing right by himself. If buying off a convicted murderer and giving him back his sadistic free will is the way to achieve that, then so be it.

The omitted 21st chapter of the book might be instructive here. Alex ultimately changes his ways but not really because he got a well-paying government job. Burgess paints it more as a matter of maturation. To emphasize societal influences is to de-emphasize the main theme (i.e. free will's importance to humanity).

I don’t think it downplays it any. I think it’s an integral part of the story. It shows he’s a product of both nature and nurture, and it leaves you wondering if his upbringing was different, would he have still been as evil? Perhaps he’d still have those fantasies and impulses, but he wouldn’t be so casual to act on them. Or maybe no matter what, he’d still be a sick fuck. Either way, I don’t think the details of the environments he was in were put in without any thought behind them.