SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: First Discussion Thread! - Valhalla Rising (Here be spoilers!)

[Guestx]

NOTE to NON-MEMBERS: Confused about what the fuck's going on in here? See the following threads:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/could-a-sherdog-movie-watching-club-work.3237221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/sherdog-movie-club-first-meeting-members-gtfih.3237763/



Welcome members (and guests) to our very first discussion thread!

Things have been moving along quite rapidly for us. In less than a week we've put together the structure of an online movie club, recruited nearly 50 members, voted on a movie and now . . . we discuss.

The topic of this week's discussion is the film that blew away the competition. None other than:

My intention each week, beyond simply offering a platform for discussion, is to treat each film like it's part of a film survey course. And as such, I'm going to put together some behind-the-scenes info for you guys so that those who want to go a little deeper beyond simply watching the movie can easily do so.

With that said, let's dive in. . .

Director Bio​

Valhalla Rising is directed by NICOLAS WINDING REFN, born in 1970 in Copenhagen, Denmark. He is also co-founder of the production company Space Rocket Nation. Other notable films of his include the Pusher trilogy, Bronson, Drive and Only God Forgives. He was, at one point, attached to direct The Equalizer with Denzel Washington but later exited the project. Channing Tatum also reportedly wanted Refn to direct Magic Mike before Steven Soderbergh came on board.

Much has been made of his visual style but it seems the inspiration may not be what people would expect. Apparently Refn is color blind.

I can't see mid-colors. That's why all my films are very contrasted, if it were anything else I couldn't see it.

Refn cites The Texas Chainsaw Massacre as an inspiration for his film career, saying:

I grew up in a cinema family. My parents were brought up on the French New Wave. That was God to them, but to me it was the antichrist, and how better to rebel against your parents than by watching something your mother is going to hate, which were American horror movies. When I saw Texas Chain Saw Massacre, I realized: I don't want to be a director, I don't want to be a writer, I don't want to be a producer, I don't want to be a photographer, I don't want to be an editor, I don't want to be a sound man. I want to be all of them at once. And that film proved that you can do it because that movie is not a normal movie.

Here are a couple more quotes from Refn.

On the characterization in his films:

I've always liked characters that because of the circumstances, have to transform themselves, and in the end, it's inevitable that what they end up becoming is what they were meant to be. Take, for example, Pusher II, which is a movie about a son [played by Mads Mikkelsen] who all his life wants his father's love, but realizes he needs to kill him to free the sins of the father from him. What plants the seed for him is realizing he has his own child, and the responsibility of that suddenly forces him to take action. And it's a happy ending, even though it's a dark ending, but for the character, it is what he was meant to become. It's almost like he achieved his true meaning. And Drive is similar in the sense that The Driver was meant to become a superhero, and he's denied all these things—relationships, companionship. And why would he be denied that? It was because he was meant for something greater.

And on his approach with actors:

I think the first thing I ask any actor is what they would like to do, which sometimes can frighten people or can be looked upon as, 'Oh, you don't know what you want.' But I try to draw the actor in—to force them in, in some cases, because a lot of actors don't want to discuss things or go in deep; they just want to come and do the work, play their part and walk away. But for me, it doesn't work like that. You've got to get absorbed and dirty, and a way to do that is to ask the actor what they would like to do. It also forces them to be more truthful.

Refn is married to actress Liv Corfixen, with whom he has two children. Corfixen became a director in her own right when she made My Life Directed by Nicolas Winding Refn, a documentary that chronicled the family's relocation to Thailand while making Only God Forgives.

Trailer:

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Refn's newest project, The Neon Demon, is coming in June of this year.

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Members: @shadow_priest_x @Forum Sentinal @europe1 @Mondo Freaks @Cint @sleepwalk @Luke Rockhard @TheRuthlessOne @choke you @jabba the punk @EL CORINTHIAN @mb23100 @HUNTERMANIA @iThrillhouse @Zer @Roxxo @Money509 @Lethal_Striker @BenRichards @mooshy @JaegerIT @Lionel Mandrake @Genki Sudo II @DaDamn @chickenluver @gorgonon @jeicex @INTERL0PER @FierceRedBelt @Satanical Eve @Werdun @Jermei @Cptn1NSAN0 @D Train @GoForkYourself @Rimbaud82 @RayA @Friday The 13th @That209 @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @Davey Crockett @BeardotheWeirdo @RoryFan @Caveat

 

[Guestx]

Film Overview
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Premise: In 11th-century Scandinavia, an enslaved man dubbed One Eye (Mads Mikkelsen) because of an old facial wound stages a violent uprising against those who imprisoned him. One Eye links up with Eirik (Ewan Stewart) and other Christian fanatics who aim to use their muscle to spread God's word. Headed for Jerusalem, One Eye and his shipmates must cope with crew infighting and attacks from the coastline. But the journey's challenges are only a harbinger of even greater brutality.

Budget: ~ $6 million
Box Office: ~ $30,000

Our Star: Mads Mikkelsen

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A bit more about Mikkelsen: Born in Denmark in 1965, Mikkelsen got his first film role in 1996. That same year also marks his first collaboration with Refn, when he scored a big role in the drug film Pusher. It was not until a decade later though that he got his big break, as the villain Le Chiffre in 2006's Casino Royale. He also had notable roles in such films as King Arthur (2004), Three Musketeers (2011), and Clash of the Titans. But these days there are no doubt many who know him solely due to his performance as Hannibal Lecter in the TV show Hannibal.

In his youth, he was a gymnast and also studied ballet. Currently, he lives in Toronto with his wife and two kids.

While being fairly well known in North America, in his own country he is a powerhouse of the entertainment industry, or as film critic A.O. Scott said, "he is something else: a star, an axiom, a face of the resurgent Danish cinema."

Some Good YouTube Videos​

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Trivia
(Taken from IMDB so caveat emptor)​

* One-Eye was a nickname for Oden (Odin), who in the Norse legends gave one of his eyes as a sacrifice to the well of Mimer to get wisdom. The sacrifice also gave him the power to see hidden things.

* Mads Mikkelsen took on the lead role, thinking that it would be quite an easy gig for him, seeing as he had no dialog. He didn't realize the arduous physical demands of shooting on forebidding Scottish locations.

* The idea of One-Eye being a mute came to Nicolas Winding Refn in a dream where One-Eye could not talk. Once he woke up he phoned Roy Jacobsen and told him about the idea.

* The film was supposed to end with a huge battle scene, with One-Eye fighting an entire army of Indians. Nicolas Winding Refn was given a budget for the scene and he started to plan the battle, before deciding that One-Eye should sacrifice himself so that The Boy might live.

* The genesis of the film comes from the discovery of a mysterious pile of runes near Delaware. There was been much speculation as to how they got there so far inland so the film seeks to provide an answer of some sort to that.

* The original ending of the film had One-Eye boarding a spaceship and being flown away. Nicolas Winding Refn, however, decided that it would be too easy for the audience to interpret, and took it out.

 

[JayPettryMMA]

Nicely done. I'll be sure to chime in after work today.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Great job man, lots of good info there.

 

[John Wang]

NIICE!! Glad to see i was tagged SECOND!! Executive Movie Crew Member checking in

Will be watching this movie this evening. Will post my thoughts tomorrow!

 

[HenryFlower]

The drone soundtrack is dope & elevates the ambiance of the film. That's all I have for now, but I love this movie. I hope I'll have time to watch it again before you guys move onto the next film, but I still have a few things to take care of beforehand.

 

[Guestx]

Great job man, lots of good info there.

Thanks, I tried to put as much information as I could for the determined reader, without going so overboard that people would be like tl;dr (or tl;dw).

 

[JAEGERX]

Whatsup, so i already watched this movie twice before my ninja over here created this outfit, im gonna watch it again and drop the bomb on this thread on the weekend

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

Good pick, I'll try to rewatch this weekend but I'm pretty busy boarding jets and popping bottles.

 

[Guestx]

Whatsup, so i already watched this movie twice before my ninja over here created this outfit, im gonna watch it again and drop the bomb on this thread on the weekend

Did you for real watch it twice already, and you're going in for the third time?

 

[europe1]

Here's my write-up on Valhalla Rising. It's basically a thematic analysis. Firstly, I'd like the elaborate on the whole One-Eye is Odin theory.


In Norse Mythology, the chieftain of all the Gods is Odin. This god is said to be one-eyed, having sacrificed his other eye in favor of the power to foresee the future. Odin is also said to frequently take the form of a (one-eyed) man and walk the earth. So One-Eye being... one-eyed, and this being a story about Vikings with religious overtones, I don't think the similarity is coincidental.

This identification of One-Eye with Odin also serves to explain some of the super-natural elements of the film.
Through the runtime, One-Eye experiences visions, the landscape becoming tinted red as he does so. In these visions he seems himself traveling to America. Yet the Crusaders are sailing for the Holy Land. It could be very possible that it was Odin's magical powers that purposely lead the boat in its direction. Later, one of the Crusaders gains the ability to read One-Eye'd mind, and he even says that "he brought us to hell". Incidentally, this mystical power to have his mind read by other people could also be due to the sorcerous abilities that Odin possesses. Another instances where One-Eye appears to know things he shouldn't be able to know is when he takes a drink from the sea-water. It turns out that it's actually sweet-water. But how could he have known that without some sort of supernatural instincts? None of these events are things that a human should be able to do. But a God - that's a diffrent story.

This all begs the question. What thematically is the film about? I think that it's basically a retelling of Ragnarok - Armageddon in the Norse faith, which takes a very central, prominent role in the mythology. One of the key themes in this religion is fatalistic inevitability. Odin has the power to foresee the future, yet he is powerless to stop Ragnarok from occurring -- and more importantly, he doesn't even try to stop it! Odin sees the set-up for the final battle to end the world occurring step-by-step, moment-by-moment but only watches passively as it develops, fatalistically accepting the inevitability of his fate.

All of this is mirrored in Valhalla Rising. One-Eye sees visions of the future, he sees himself journeying to America, he sees himself being killed. Yet all of this he stoically accepts. He never tries to fight his destiny, to divert his course. Likewise, his prophecies for all the other characters turn out correct as well, despite them not accepting what he says. When the brown-haired, hairy vikings says that he needs to return home to his father, One-Eye just flutters his eye a bit, knowing internally that that man will never do so. Valhalla Rising is ultimately about echoing this idea of the inevibility of destiny, and that the proper way to meet it is through stoic acceptence.



Odds and Ends -- Things I wonder about but can't really explain


-The littel boy says about One-Eye: "He is from Hell - the other side of the ocean". Here hell is assosiated with America. But this statement also makes no sense. One-Eye is from America? There is no logic in that bit of information, nor is it elaborated on in the rest of the movie. Why include it?

-When One-Eye kills the slave-master, the guy asks him "What do you see, Yourself?" This is of course true. One-Eyes visions concern himself. However, then the slave-master says that One-Eye will go to Hell, which enrages One-Eye, and makes him kill the man in a cruel and sadistic manner. This violent outburst is odd since One-Eyed seems so compliant to his fate in the rest of the narrative.

-One of the crusaders says that he had a dream about this land (America) and his own death there. Here he exhibits the same proficicing abilities as One-Eye.

-There is an odd parallell between One-Eye and Jesus illustrated in the film. When they are on the boat - one of the crusaders tell the little boy that Jesus sacrificed himself ot save them all. The last chapter is named The Sacrifice. Is this to imply that One-Eyed sacrificed himself for the boy? But why? Self-Sacrifice isn't really a feuture in Norse mythology. Why make a conection between One-Eye and Jesus?

 

[JAEGERX]

Did you for real watch it twice already, and you're going in for the third time?

Yep i did, its an amazing film and has been out for a while

 

[JAEGERX]

Good pick, I'll try to rewatch this weekend but I'm pretty busy boarding jets and popping bottles.

i know exactly what you are going through

 

[DaDamn]

First off, this is a movie I probably would not have watched on my own or may have turned off after the disembowelment scene. I stuck it out in lue of the discussion and I’m glad I did.



To me this is a coming home movie. Something I can relate to since I moved back to my home town about 10 years ago after being gone for 20. The lack of dialogue and extensive scenery shots do slow the movie but it all works out in the end. I thought the premonition scenes were flashbacks until the last few moments of the film. It wasn’t until then that I really realized what the movie was about or what it meant to me.

I came into this movie blind not knowing what to expect.

I watched this with my nephew and told him I wasn’t sure if I could watch any more after the disembowelment. He said “really, it wasn’t that bad.” I said “yeah, at least he didn’t fuck his guts first.”

 

[Guestx]

Yep i did, its an amazing film and has been out for a while

Ohhh wait, I misread your post. I thought you were saying you watched to twice since we picked it and now you're about to watch it again. But I get you now.

 

[Steve-French]

Nice work man. I voted for this, because it's something I wouldn't have heard of or even had queued on my Netflix. Which is what I'm hoping to get out of this SMC. I usually gravitate to Physiological or Sci-Fi Dramas, but enjoy everything as long as I'm pointed in the right direction.

I'll try too watch it later on tonight, but I probably won't be able to get to it until tomorrow or the next day.

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Gonna try to watch this tonight.

 

[europe1]

Some other thoughts:

The most obvious inspiration for Valhalla Rising has to be Werner Herzog's Aguirre: The Wrath of God. In terms of plot they are very similar. Aguirre is about a squad of Spanish Conquistadors traveling down the amazons in search of The City of Gold - Eldorado. They are assaulted by invisible natives, fight among themselves and experience religious megalomania, very much like Valhalla Rising. People who like this movie should definitively check out Aguirre: The Wrath of God.


Also, I think the landscape choice was interesting. Refn decided to film in the barren highlands of Scotland. Instead of, you know, Scandinavia, where the Vikings actually came from. And it's not like the Scottish highlands make a good dupe for Scandinavia -- the environments are nothing alike. So Refn must have decided to film there for atmospheric purposes, rather than reasons relating to any historical accuracy. That said, I think the windy, craggy, featureless highlands is a real tone-setter for the film. The landscapes roughness mirrors the savagery of the characters and story

But it also has that introsphectic, dreamlike feel to it. There is a (incorrect) saying that all the great religions came out of the desert, becuse in that featureless landscape a person has nothing to look at but to look inwards. The highlands have that effect as well, I feel. And becuse it is so featureless, the beginning chapter of the film lacks and real sense of orientation or geography. They walk around but it feels like they never arrive anywhere. Everything looks the same. It is a place without identity -- a dreamworld almost. A world where existential questions can be raised in a harsh, savage setting.

 

[Guestx]

Here's my write-up on Valhalla Rising. It's basically a thematic analysis. Firstly, I'd like the elaborate on the whole One-Eye is Odin theory.


In Norse Mythology, the chieftain of all the Gods is Odin. This god is said to be one-eyed, having sacrificed his other eye in favor of the power to foresee the future. Odin is also said to frequently take the form of a (one-eyed) man and walk the earth. So One-Eye being... one-eyed, and this being a story about Vikings with religious overtones, I don't think the similarity is coincidental.

This identification of One-Eye with Odin also serves to explain some of the super-natural elements of the film.
Through the runtime, One-Eye experiences visions, the landscape becoming tinted red as he does so. In these visions he seems himself traveling to America. Yet the Crusaders are sailing for the Holy Land. It could be very possible that it was Odin's magical powers that purposely lead the boat in its direction. Later, one of the Crusaders gains the ability to read One-Eye'd mind, and he even says that "he brought us to hell". Incidentally, this mystical power to have his mind read by other people could also be due to the sorcerous abilities that Odin possesses. Another instances where One-Eye appears to know things he shouldn't be able to know is when he takes a drink from the sea-water. It turns out that it's actually sweet-water. But how could he have known that without some sort of supernatural instincts? None of these events are things that a human should be able to do. But a God - that's a diffrent story.

This all begs the question. What thematically is the film about? I think that it's basically a retelling of Ragnarok - Armageddon in the Norse faith, which takes a very central, prominent role in the mythology. One of the key themes in this religion is fatalistic inevitability. Odin has the power to foresee the future, yet he is powerless to stop Ragnarok from occurring -- and more importantly, he doesn't even try to stop it! Odin sees the set-up for the final battle to end the world occurring step-by-step, moment-by-moment but only watches passively as it develops, fatalistically accepting the inevitability of his fate.

All of this is mirrored in Valhalla Rising. One-Eye sees visions of the future, he sees himself journeying to America, he sees himself being killed. Yet all of this he stoically accepts. He never tries to fight his destiny, to divert his course. Likewise, his prophecies for all the other characters turn out correct as well, despite them not accepting what he says. When the brown-haired, hairy vikings says that he needs to return home to his father, One-Eye just flutters his eye a bit, knowing internally that that man will never do so. Valhalla Rising is ultimately about echoing this idea of the inevibility of destiny, and that the proper way to meet it is through stoic acceptence.

Great write up.

You know, not knowing much about Norse mythology, at no point during watching the film did One Eye = Odin for me. It wasn't until after I had watched the movie and started looking through comments on IMDB that it clicked. In fact, it was while reading this post, which I'd like to call some attention to:

Please, gents.
I can't believe none of you have figured out this movie.
There is only one real question:
Who is One Eye?
The answer is breathtakingly simple.
Note:
He is missing his LEFT eye.
He is mute.
He is an unconquerable warrior.
He has visions of the future.

ODIN. That's who it is.

Odin comes down from Asgard to see how his people are faring with the rise of Christianity, and is disgusted with what he beholds. He fights, testing any who might be worthy to reach Valhalla, but finds none - especially among those who watch the gladiatorial combats.

The Boy is the Future. The future of his people lies in North America - and the greatest majority of european immigrants to North America were from Germany and Scandinavia.

That is why the crusaders wind up there. They are also unworthy. The boy, though, endures.

In summary: The film is an allegory of the end of the Viking Age, the rise of Christianity and the discovery of the New World.

I'm not sure that this guy is on target about it being "an allegory of the end of the Viking Age, the rise of Christianity and the discovery of the New World," but it's an interesting perspective.

Also, I have to admit, while watching the film I was a bit confused about his visions. For whatever reason, maybe because they were so fleeting, I didn't realize he was glimpsing the future. Now that I have this new information, and this new perspective, I want to watch it again.

-The littel boy says about One-Eye: "He is from Hell - the other side of the ocean". Here hell is assosiated with America. But this statement also makes no sense. One-Eye is from America? There is no logic in that bit of information, nor is it elaborated on in the rest of the movie. Why include it?

Agreed. I thought about this as well. He's obviously not from North America.

@MusterX drew my attention yesterday to the fact that the word has a dual meaning, depending on which culture you're referencing. Hell and Hel are both pronounced the same, with one factoring into Christian culture and the other having a completely different meaning in ancient Scandinavian culture. I'm not sure what exactly that MEANS but it's something to keep in mind.

-There is an odd parallell between One-Eye and Jesus illustrated in the film. When they are on the boat - one of the crusaders tell the little boy that Jesus sacrificed himself ot save them all. The last chapter is named The Sacrifice. Is this to imply that One-Eyed sacrificed himself for the boy? But why? Self-Sacrifice isn't really a feuture in Norse mythology. Why make a conection between One-Eye and Jesus?

According to the trivia in the second post:

"The film was supposed to end with a huge battle scene, with One-Eye fighting an entire army of Indians. Nicolas Winding Refn was given a budget for the scene and he started to plan the battle, before deciding that One-Eye should sacrifice himself so that The Boy might live."

Why Refn made this decision is anyone's guess, but I would suspect that he probably just liked the ending better and thought that it was a fitting end for our main character. After all, to go from a slave, having always been mistreated in life, to being willing to sacrifice yourself for another human being is quite the character arc. He could've given in to a life of hate, but instead found something else--something greater--within himself.

 

[Zer]

With that said, let's DRIVE in. . .

Fixed

Otherwise awesome presentation ts. Watching this shit soon as I'm off work