Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (D) Introduces Bill: Border Patrol+ICE Must Document Every Stop

[Jack V Savage]

Numbers, not anecdotes. And you're a numbers guy, too(!) Bias is a bitch lol.

Yeah, if illegal immigration rates were at '90s/early Aughts' levels, Democrats would support increasing security. Ask me how I know.

 

[waiguoren]

Yes, they should have talked to the mother like a human and worked it out. Explained their reason for being there and that they had authority and explained calmly what they wanted. They were way too quick to just start busting in with guns drawn.

This is disturbingly naïve. That video is 90 seconds long and does not show what preceded the entry. For all you know, they might have "talked to the mother like a human" for 30 minutes before finally deciding to pry the door. Why would you assume otherwise? (N.B. the difference here between an assumption and a suspicion)

The thing is, the story is about the idea. If we can all agree that ICE needs more (some) oversight, this sounds like a good step. If you later find flaws in the actual bill as written, that's another discussion.

No, the story is about legislation that Gillibrand and her co-sponsors intend to introduce. Ideas are good, but not all ideas are executed well. Right now, "wait and see" is the proper response from a policy perspective.

You're an authoritarian, consistently

Will you present any evidence to support your name-calling?

 

[waiguoren]

Numbers, not anecdotes.

The man has been deported 16 times. That's not an anecdote but a documented fact. Also, there are thousands more like him in the databases of ICE and CBP. So yeah, it's a relevant number to bolster my contention: the US-Mexico border is still not secure.

 

[waiguoren]

Yeah, if illegal immigration rates were at '90s/early Aughts' levels, Democrats would support increasing security. Ask me how I know.

How do you know?

 

[Fawlty]

The man has been deported 16 times. That's not an anecdote but a documented fact. Also, there are thousands more like him in the databases of ICE and CBP. So yeah, it's a relevant number to bolster my contention: the US-Mexico border is still not secure.

And you know that's meaningless. What matters are the overall numbers, rather than some individual's uncanny ability to break into America and get caught every time. But what's more interesting is your intellectual fraudulence about this. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[waiguoren]

What matters are the overall numbers, rather than some individual's uncanny ability to break into America and get caught every time.

Pretty sure I disagree with you here. Which overall numbers?

 

[HomerThompson]

What is the evidence that I am a tribalist?

All your posts.

 

[waiguoren]

All your posts.

So lazy, little Homer.

 

[Fawlty]

Pretty sure I disagree with you here. Which overall numbers?

I know that you're pretending to disagree that what matters are the numbers. What I don't understand is how you can look yourself in the mirror simultaneously. The subject here is your intellectual fraud. You is fraud.

(If you haven't figured it out, I'm just going to browbeat you for this)

 

[waiguoren]

I know that you're pretending to disagree that what matters are the numbers.

Which numbers?

 

[Fawlty]

Which numbers?

Gish Gallop attempt in progress

The man from Jack's video had been deported 16 times previously and still found his way back. Is that not a sign that our border is not secure? If the border is not secure, isn't increased enforcement desirable?

I'm quite familiar with this tactic. Back it up, Gish.

No, it's not necessarily a sign that our border is not secure enough. I'm also going to step away for a little bit. Should give you plenty of time to rebuke yourself.

 

[waiguoren]

Gish Gallop attempt in progress

Incorrect. I'm just trying to get you to define your terms and justify one of your claims. I have noted your failure to do so.

 

[waiguoren]

No, it's not necessarily a sign that our border is not secure enough.

We might have a semantic dispute. It's not obvious to me because you are refusing to define your terms.

To me, a "secure" border is a border that almost no one can cross without authorization from the government on the other side. See Israel's border with Egypt for an example. By that measure, our border with Mexico is far from secure. The gentleman from Jack's video has crossed illegally at least 17 times, and ICE/CBP maintain records of thousands of aliens who have also been deported multiple times.

By the way, your best counter-argument is to point out that I don't know if the gentleman crossed the border illegally for if he crossed legally and overstayed his visa.