Senate rejects effort to ban Keystone XL-pipeline exports

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Hollywood Nicky, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. Hollywood Nicky

    Hollywood Nicky Banned Banned

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    OXNAAAAAAAARD!!!!!
  2. UpaLoompa

    UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    My understanding is that there's no reason to build the pipeline except for export, so this rejection would make sense. Also, is it US oil to keep? Of course, pipeline supporters have indeed been trumpeting that it would aid "energy independence". Politicking by both sides, though at least this dem politicking highlights the dishonesty in stated motives.


    I have no idea whether the steel rider makes sense.
     
  3. second sight

    second sight Reversing Submissions from Father Time

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    do you think the senate should or does have the power to tell a company what they can and can't do with a product?
     
  4. UpaLoompa

    UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    In this particular case I'm not sure how you could argue the senate shouldn't be able to regulate the companies.
     
  5. KOQ24

    KOQ24 Gold Belt

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    the "energy independence" argument of the kxl proponents has always amused me,since that canadian oil wont stay in the us but be sold on the market.
     
  6. WrestlinganJudo

    WrestlinganJudo Banned Banned

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    It will help reduce the balance of payments issue. IE, effect the trade deficit. Forcing dollars to come home in a manner that is less inflationary than if it were extended out in the future. It will help ease the debt with China in other words.

    Your in favor of us being in debt to other governments and want to reduce the money multiplier effect as well as not increase tax revenue for a government that is silly in debt. I got ya.

    Of course not one wants the dollars that China has to be used so reduce the trade deficit and take some of the debt we have with them off of the table, silly me.
     
  7. second sight

    second sight Reversing Submissions from Father Time

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    I think there are a hundred arguments to be made here, first off who owns the oil?
     
  8. second sight

    second sight Reversing Submissions from Father Time

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    Myth: Keystone XL is an export pipeline to China and other nations.
    Fact: Keystone XL is not an export pipeline.

    It is a supply line to U.S. Gulf Coast refineries — which have signed up to 20-year binding commercial contracts to receive oil through Keystone XL. This much-needed oil will allow refineries to create products that we all rely on every day — gasoline for our vehicles, aviation fuels, and diesel fuels to help transport goods throughout the continent. It makes absolutely no sense for companies to purchase cheaper Canadian crude, and then pay (again) to ship that product overseas, while continuing to import higher-priced oil from the Middle East and Venezuela.

    In fact, the State Department’s own Environmental Impact Statement addresses this directly:

    Exports of Canadian crude are “unlikely to be economically justified for any significant durable trade given transport costs and market conditions.”
    Once [Canadian crude] arrives at the Gulf Coast, Gulf Coast refiners have a significant competitive advantage in processing compared to foreign refiners who would have to incur additional transportation charges to have the crude oil delivered from the Gulf Coast to their location.
    Gulf Coast refiners’ traditional sources of heavy crudes, particularly Mexico and Venezuela are declining and are expected to continue. Both the EIA’s 2013 AEO and EnSys WORLD model indicate that this demand for heavy crude in the Gulf Coast refineries is likely to persist.
    EnSys modeling shows no export of light or heavy crude carried on Keystone XL or any other pipeline into PADD 3 onward to overseas markets, confirming the barriers that PADD 3 heavy crude demand and transport costs.
    The U.S. is an overwhelming net importer of crude oil. The International Energy Agency (IEA) and the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) have both forecast the U.S. will still need to import oil to meet its domestic demand for decades, despite growing oil production in the U.S. Canadian and U.S. production transported by pipeline will displace more expensive crude oils from less stable countries.

    - See more at: http://keystone-xl.com/facts/myths-facts/#sthash.roKx7go1.dpuf
     
  9. UpaLoompa

    UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    Seriously?
     
  10. second sight

    second sight Reversing Submissions from Father Time

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    seriously what
     
  11. WrestlinganJudo

    WrestlinganJudo Banned Banned

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    Even if it was exported it would be a benefit still to reduce Chinese dollar holdings, reduce the balance of payments and reduce our debt with China all at the same time in a single transaction.
     
  12. WrestlinganJudo

    WrestlinganJudo Banned Banned

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    Absolutely.

    Why are we in debt to China. They send us stuff, we send them dollars, they don't spend the dollar so they buy American bonds. Someone is out of work here because of the trade deficit. In a practical sense we don't owe China money, we owe them stuff. The balance of payments is the mismatch between what they send up and we send them. That gets translated into the trade deficit which helps increase our liability to China.
     
  13. WrestlinganJudo

    WrestlinganJudo Banned Banned

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    It is a Canadian asset that benefits us by our handling of it and the added value potential that it has for the USA.
     
  14. UpaLoompa

    UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    There are a couple of things wrong with your post. Low-hanging fruit:
    First, your source is the official site promoting the pipeline; basically you're using Disney's webpage to support the statement "Disneyland is the happiest place on Earth". Surely you recognize that is pretty fucking stupid, right?
    Second, and more subtle but more egregious, that site keeps emphasizing the export of crude. Why does it do that? They're correct that little or none of the crude is going to be exported. However, the Keystone XL is going to refineries that already export over 60% of their refined products. Numerous refineries have stated explicitly that they're upping capacity specifically for export. Your source is being very dishonest by focusing on crude exports.


    A question I'd have is whether gas refined from these tar sand sources can actually be used in the US. Much of the oil we export is because it doesn't meet our air quality standards. Is that the case here? I really don't know.

    Frankly, I'm not too concerned about whether the oil is or is not exported. There are a host of bigger issues. The only reason that is relevant is because it is one of the points used to support the building of the pipeline.
     
  15. UpaLoompa

    UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    My comment was directed to second sight.
     
  16. UpaLoompa

    UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    You're inferring a lot with very little to go on.
    In other words, no.
     
  17. second sight

    second sight Reversing Submissions from Father Time

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    you should spend a little more time reading instead of trying to be cute, the first paragraph was the only thing from their website everything else was taken from: State Department’s own Environmental Impact Statement. They linked the PDF in the article.
    http://keystonepipeline-xl.state.gov/documents/organization/221147.pdf

    They are bringing in 180,000 barrels a day (pretty sure thats the amount I read) of that same oil by rail everyday, the pipeline will be much more efficient and safer.

    I have a bunch of questions about the refineries as well, they make thousands of products from oil, who own the byproducts?
     
  18. kpt018

    kpt018 Gold Belt

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    Fuck the Keystone Pipeline. There are minimal long term jobs created from this project and the US bears the risk that it leaks. And regardless of where it is shipped, the oil will be burned into the atmosphere. Why do Americans support this when there is so little benefit? It's a jerk off project for big oil ty****s.
     
  19. WrestlinganJudo

    WrestlinganJudo Banned Banned

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    If it is going to China it is not inferring a lot that it will apply pressure in the opposite direction of the balance of payments. I went off of what someone else posted that it was being exported.

    I am sorry but that is how the balance of payments is calculated.
     
  20. UpaLoompa

    UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    I know those snippets were from the SD report, excerpts picked by Disney to support their assertion that Disneyland is the happiest place on Earth. That's just amusing though. More importantly, those snippets are supporting their duplicitous argument about crude exports. We already know the refineries being supplied by this pipeline export most of their refined product. Transcanada's argument there, which you're happily accepting, is clearly dishonest. This is a fucking "duh" situation.

    You'd be on much more reasonable ground going with the argument that exporting is actually good. Unfortunately Keystone proponents have been dishonest on this issue (and others).
     

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