Second Amendment also covers those in US illegally??

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by second sight, Aug 25, 2015.

  1. second sight

    second sight Reversing Submissions from Father Time

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    MADISON, Wis. (AP) — People living in the United States illegally have a constitutional right to bear arms but are still barred from doing so by a separate law, a federal appeals court ruled.

    The three-judge panel of the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals issued its ruling Thursday in a case involving Mariano Meza-Rodriguez. His family brought him to the United States from Mexico illegally when he was four or five years old, according to the 7th Circuit ruling. Now an adult, he was arrested in 2013 after a bar fight in Milwaukee. Police found a .22-caliber bullet in his shorts pocket.

    Federal law prohibits people in the country illegally from possessing guns or ammunition. Meza-Rodriguez argued that the charges should be dismissed because the law infringes on his Second Amendment right to bear arms. U.S. District Judge Rudolph Randa rejected that contention on the broad grounds that the Second Amendment doesn't apply to people in the country illegally. Meza-Rodriguez was ultimately convicted of a felony and deported.

    The 7th Circuit panel, however, ruled unanimously Thursday that the term "the people" in the Second Amendment's guarantee that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed also applies to those in the country illegally. The ruling, which applies in Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin, conflicts with opinions from three other federal appellate courts in recent years that found the Second Amendment doesn't apply to people in the country illegally.

    "We see no principled way to carve out the Second Amendment and say that the unauthorized (or maybe all noncitizens) are excluded," Chief Judge Diane Wood wrote.

    But the panel upheld Meza-Rodriguez's conviction, saying the federal ban on people in the country illegally possessing weapons remains valid. Wood wrote that the right to bear arms isn't unlimited and the government has a strong interest in preventing people who have already broken the law by coming to the country illegally from carrying guns.

    Meza-Rodriguez's attorney, Joseph Bugni, said the decision contradicts itself. He plans to ask all nine active 7th Circuit judges to review the case together. If Meza-Rodriguez doesn't prevail at that level he'll go to the U.S. Supreme Court, Bugni said.

    Judge Joel M. Flaum, a member of the panel, wrote in a concurring opinion that he doubts the Second Amendment applies to people in the country illegally. He acknowledged that the decision conflicts with other federal rulings and said the panel shouldn't have addressed the broader constitutional question since the possession ban is clearly legal.

    http://news.yahoo.com/court-people-us-illegally-carry-guns-164502032.html?nf=1
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
  2. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Where do you deport someone who moved as a 4-5 years old?
     
  3. Quipling

    Quipling Silver Belt

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    There are a number of rights that apply to anybody in this country, whether foreigner, illegal, citizens, or convicted felons. I'd have to do more research to determine whether the second amendment is one of those, though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
  4. second sight

    second sight Reversing Submissions from Father Time

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    I made an important edit to the op


    to your post felons can't own guns, which makes me wonder what his felony was for?
    Gun in a bar maybe?
     
  5. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Back to the country where they were born.
     
  6. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    A country they dont even remember? sounds legit, that would be like sending black people to Africa.

    I hope he has family back there or that at least speaks the language, its still pretty rough.
     
  7. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Who cares if they don't remember? Their parents certainly remember it, and they also almost certainly used their mother tongue in the home with their children.
     
  8. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Compassionate human beings.

    Where the parents deported?

    Like how Cain Velasquez speaks spanish?
     
  9. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I am compassionate - for my own countrymen who didn't break the law and have to put up with the consequences of this mass lawbreaking.



    Were?

    Again who cares? Lawbreakers must be sent back - that's the new norm. They shouldn't be rewarded for breaking the law anymore.


    He apparently speaks enough to still identify with the country and to still say a few sentences of halting Spanish in press conferences. It's not like he'll be starting from scratch.
     
  10. oldshadow

    oldshadow Steel Belt

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    Interesting case, many rights apply to any one here legal or not but not all so this should be interesting especially with the more liberal judges if it makes it to the supreme court.
     
  11. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Banned Banned

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    "I am compassionate - for my own countrymen" is especially funny when, in the case of persons brought to the states at such a young age, they're often virtually indistinguishable from the brown-skinned countrymen you so endear.

    Also, what law did he break? Should he have had the international awareness and the rigid moral compass to abandon his parents at the ripe age of 4 because he knew it was wrong? Or does he bear pretty much no responsibility in that breach of law?

    My word, you could at least own up to the fact that being a scumbag primarily drives your political doctrine. At least then you could have some argumentative congruence. Trying to root it in logic just makes you dishonest as well.
     
  12. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Then maybe your attitude toward the Supreme Court ought to be like Andrew Jackson or Abraham Lincoln.

    "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!"

    *****

    "Are all the laws to be enforced but one?"
     
  13. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Except for that one critical element which we call citizenship.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse, counsellor. You should know that.

    I'm not the scumbag selling out my country to foreigners. That's your bailiwick.
     
  14. oldshadow

    oldshadow Steel Belt

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    Not sure what point you are trying to make.
     
  15. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    My point is that when the cause you believe in is right, you shouldn't care what the courts say. Change the courts. Or fight them
     
  16. oldshadow

    oldshadow Steel Belt

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    Sure you should do that but you still have to obey the law until you can get it changed.
     
  17. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Banned Banned

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    Which you could never distinguish. So, your allowance for empathy makes you always rigidly check the papers of everyone you encounter? Sounds horribly tiring.

    Or your approach is full of shit.

    It is when you have no hand in the perpetration of the crime-- in most areas lack of a guilty act and lack of criminal intent is a homerun for the accused. If illegal status weren't in theory a strictly liable crime, which it must be for the sake of not overloading the system with individual discoveries, he would be undoubtedly exonerated because of circumstance.

    But I'm sure you knew that.

    Also, unless you're British, which I'm sure you're not given your disdain for non-US citizens, it's "counselor," chief.


    You may as well have just restated my conclusion that you quoted.
     
  18. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    No, actually, you don't. Or to be more precise, the president doesn't.

    Why do you think I referred to Jackson and Lincoln? They were tow presidents who defied the Supreme Court.

    You notice Obama also takes a very dismissive attitude toward the courts when they even look to threaten his legacy.

    God hates a coward. Stop trying to talk yourself out of doing the right thing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
  19. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    You can't distinguish citizenship from non-citizenship? Really, counsellor? Are you going to stick with that bullshit story or you got something better?

    And checking papers is a routine part of every American's day. Welcome to the bureaucratic state. Not sure what fantasyland you've been living in for your entire life that caused you to miss it.

    The current law allows us to send them home and they're going home. End of story. Save your legal counsel for your doomed clients, counsellor. Nobody's buying it.

    You mean, like Elian Gonzales?

    No, I don't. But the more important fact is neither do you.

    I thought with the stick up your ass, you'd appreciate the extra L.
     
  20. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Titanium Belt

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    Unless being an illegal immigrant is a felony, what would be the basis of recognizing any Constitutional rights without including the 2nd? Can we just assign any old crime enough weight to deprive people of civil rights?
     

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