Economy Schumer-Manchin bill has $45.6 billion to audit the middle class

[shankmcgank]

Are you somehow under the impression that the cost of civilization should be free?

I mean, it's one thing to be pissed about how our tax money is spent, or how it's wasted outrageously in no bid contracts, military contractors, grants, etc., but to insinuate that the cost of living in a relatively nice society should be absolutely free sounds kind of childish to me.

Funny how it was ok until 1917.

Do you even know where taxes came from and why people had to pay them, starting then?

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Democrats keep betraying the working class.

 

[Libero cane v2]

Pay your taxes and don’t cry if the government comes after you for not paying them. Don’t like it? Move to Somalia- I hear they have a low tax rate and government services to match.

 

[Bald1]

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's. That bloated bitch needs to be fed.
- Hezus the shady accountant

Tax codes remind me of the book 3 Felonies a Day. Shit's a convoluted mess nobody can navigate without fail, written by self interested people.

 

[deadon]

Pay your taxes and don’t cry if the government comes after you for not paying them. Don’t like it? Move to Somalia- I hear they have a low tax rate and government services to match.

This isn't about not paying taxes. This is more of combing through write offs and having enough money to pay for a good tax atty.

There's a reason why 90% of all audits are foe those that earn under 200k. A lot of those people won't fight and don't know the laws to a T. They just pay what they're told. The rich? The IRS knows they have attys so for the most part they leave them alone.

 

[DrDune]

Pay your taxes and don’t cry if the government comes after you for not paying them. Don’t like it? Move to Somalia- I hear they have a low tax rate and government services to match.

See, here is what you don’t understand, I’ll give you an example.

I purchased a dirt bike in 2016 for $6000, and sold it in 2022 for $5000. The buyer paid via Zelle, funds went through fine.

Now, I’ll be receiving a 1099 from Zelle for my $5000 “income”. Did I make $5000? Should I be taxed on that $5000? My net loss was $1000, but that 1099 will have no idea there is a $6000 purchase from 2016 affiliated to a $5000 sale in 2022.

The onus is on me to prove the $5000 is not pure income, otherwise I’m taxed on it. Luckily, I have the original paperwork from 2016 showing as much.

But do you see how poor people, unorganized people, etc, may fall victim to these kind of audits? Are they tax cheats? Are they gaming the system? No. The system simply doesn’t know they aren’t, and most peoples lives are such clusterfucks that they’ll likely be rammed by these new policies.

 

[SBJJ]

A single guy making $200k/year is upper-middle class almost anywhere I agree, but I'm speaking about young couples with young children. Also it's not just San Jose and San Francisco it's most of the Bay Area (which is huge) and is trickling to what was the more affordable places up Hwy 80 to Sacramento area. Not to mention many cities in Southern California such as LA, Burbank, Glendale, Santa Barbara, Irvine, San Diego, etc. $200k in these metro areas is not upper-middle class when you would struggle to find a decent home for $1 mil (or not even exist at all). A $1 mil jumbo loan ones PITI mortgage would average $7000 +/- $300 for a 30 year fixed at 4.75-5.25%. You would be house poor with a $200k income even if you are very frugal. At that point how much could one even contribute towards retirement? How about the cost of daycare/preschool, high healthcare premiums (especially in Nor-Cal), etc.

You can't get a 2 bedroom condo in most of OC for under 600 or 700k.

200k for a family of 4 is almost a necessity in most of CA.

 

[SBJJ]

Pay your taxes and don’t cry if the government comes after you for not paying them. Don’t like it? Move to Somalia- I hear they have a low tax rate and government services to match.

A top contender for worst post of the year.

You really wanna pay 80k agents to go after families for thousands or even hundreds of bucks?

Lol. Come on dude

 

[SBJJ]

See, here is what you don’t understand, I’ll give you an example.

I purchased a dirt bike in 2016 for $6000, and sold it in 2022 for $5000. The buyer paid via Zelle, funds went through fine.

Now, I’ll be receiving a 1099 from Zelle for my $5000 “income”. Did I make $5000? Should I be taxed on that $5000? My net loss was $1000, but that 1099 will have no idea there is a $6000 purchase from 2016 affiliated to a $5000 sale in 2022.

The onus is on me to prove the $5000 is not pure income, otherwise I’m taxed on it. Luckily, I have the original paperwork from 2016 showing as much.

But do you see how poor people, unorganized people, etc, may fall victim to these kind of audits? Are they tax cheats? Are they gaming the system? No. The system simply doesn’t know they aren’t, and most peoples lives are such clusterfucks that they’ll likely be rammed by these new policies.

This!!

 

[Rob Battisti]

This!!

“Good, fuck ‘em” - The IRS and it’s 87000 new employees

 

[wufabufa]

See, here is what you don’t understand, I’ll give you an example.

I purchased a dirt bike in 2016 for $6000, and sold it in 2022 for $5000. The buyer paid via Zelle, funds went through fine.

Now, I’ll be receiving a 1099 from Zelle for my $5000 “income”. Did I make $5000? Should I be taxed on that $5000? My net loss was $1000, but that 1099 will have no idea there is a $6000 purchase from 2016 affiliated to a $5000 sale in 2022.

The onus is on me to prove the $5000 is not pure income, otherwise I’m taxed on it. Luckily, I have the original paperwork from 2016 showing as much.

But do you see how poor people, unorganized people, etc, may fall victim to these kind of audits? Are they tax cheats? Are they gaming the system? No. The system simply doesn’t know they aren’t, and most peoples lives are such clusterfucks that they’ll likely be rammed by these new policies.

Yeah, I'm really unclear as to how they intend to implement the taxation on digital transfers. For instance, if I loan my brother $700 through Venmo, will he have to pay taxes on that, and then when he eventually pays me back the $700 will I then have to pay taxes on that because it's considered income? So we both lose a few hundred bucks if that's the case. That's sounds so fucking insane, I hope I'm wrong.

ATM machines are gonna be humming because cash will be king again.....until they stop printing physical bills and coins.

 

[Islam Imamate]

A single guy making $200k/year is upper-middle class almost anywhere I agree, but I'm speaking about young couples with young children. Also it's not just San Jose and San Francisco it's most of the Bay Area (which is huge) and is trickling to what was the more affordable places up Hwy 80 to Sacramento area. Not to mention many cities in Southern California such as LA, Burbank, Glendale, Santa Barbara, Irvine, San Diego, etc. $200k in these metro areas is not upper-middle class when you would struggle to find a decent home for $1 mil (or not even exist at all). A $1 mil jumbo loan ones PITI mortgage would average $7000 +/- $300 for a 30 year fixed at 4.75-5.25%. You would be house poor with a $200k income even if you are very frugal. At that point how much could one even contribute towards retirement? How about the cost of daycare/preschool, high healthcare premiums (especially in Nor-Cal), etc.

This is basically what Michael Caine argued back in the day when complaining about a mansion tax. Houses were categorized according to their value, not sqft, so his medium sized apartment in the posh side of London valued at roughly 2 million pounds was considered a mansion and he thought this an injustice. But would it really make sense to use a metric like sqft instead? Is a person with a $2 million apartment in Manhattan "poorer" than a rural Georgian with an 1200 sqft home that is worth $250k? I don't think so.

Beyond that I just find it odd that things a Netflix subscription and a daily coffee are looked at some needless and extravagant expense by many but having a big home in a metropolis as a young couple is an expected entitlement. There just are places where middle class people can't afford to live, that's why upper class folks spend big bucks to live there. Even among upper class folks there's levels to the game. Yes there are places so high end that even upper middle class people have to spend beyond their means to experience both it and the typical American Dream but its their choice to spend beyond their means to do so . Lower class folks are often trapped in cycle of poverty and its harder for them to relocate but if you make $200k you can relocate and as we've seen many have from Cali. Of course things are complicated, people have other reasons for wanting to stay in places like being near friends and family or specific career/educational opportunities so I don't want to deny that housing costs are a problem.

 

[boingyman]

This is basically what Michael Caine argued back in the day when complaining about a mansion tax. Houses were categorized according to their value, not sqft, so his medium sized apartment in the posh side of London valued at roughly 2 million pounds was considered a mansion and he thought this an injustice. But would it really make sense to use a metric like sqft instead? Is a person with a $2 million apartment in Manhattan "poorer" than a rural Georgian with an 1200 sqft home that is worth $250k? I don't think so.

Beyond that I just find it odd that things a Netflix subscription and a daily coffee are looked at some needless and extravagant expense by many but having a big home in a metropolis as a young couple is an expected entitlement. There just are places where middle class people can't afford to live, that's why upper class folks spend big bucks to live there. Even among upper class folks there's levels to the game. Yes there are places so high end that even upper middle class people have to spend beyond their means to experience both it and the typical American Dream but its their choice to spend beyond their means to do so . Lower class folks are often trapped in cycle of poverty and its harder for them to relocate but if you make $200k you can relocate and as we've seen many have from Cali. Of course things are complicated, people have other reasons for wanting to stay in places like being near friends and family or specific career/educational opportunities so I don't want to deny that housing costs are a problem.

Bay Area is mostly full of suburbs and even some of the less desirable outskirts of the Bay is still very expensive to live. I'm not talking about living directly in the city or the most desirable parts of the Bay. People are moving further out leading to 1-1.5 hr commutes because even with a high salary they can't afford a home there. Also for many the salary they do bring in won't translate elsewhere. That's part of the reason why I don't think I could ever leave here because they pay is so much better then anywhere else in the country.

 

[DrDune]

They’ll only go after billionaires, promise!!

 

[Islam Imamate]

Bay Area is mostly full of suburbs and even some of the less desirable outskirts of the Bay is still very expensive to live. I'm not talking about living directly in the city or the most desirable parts of the Bay. People are moving further out leading to 1-1.5 hr commutes because even with a high salary they can't afford a home there. Also for many the salary they do bring in won't translate elsewhere. That's part of the reason why I don't think I could ever leave here because they pay is so much better then anywhere else in the country.

Well as I said you're talking about the least affordable area of the country with the most dynamic economy so naturally its in high demand. I think the expectation that a middle class family should be able to afford a big house and two cars in the most expensive city is perhaps a bit much, especially in light of the way the spending habits of the poor are scrutinized.

 

[fungi]

See, here is what you don’t understand, I’ll give you an example.

I purchased a dirt bike in 2016 for $6000, and sold it in 2022 for $5000. The buyer paid via Zelle, funds went through fine.

Now, I’ll be receiving a 1099 from Zelle for my $5000 “income”. Did I make $5000? Should I be taxed on that $5000? My net loss was $1000, but that 1099 will have no idea there is a $6000 purchase from 2016 affiliated to a $5000 sale in 2022.

The onus is on me to prove the $5000 is not pure income, otherwise I’m taxed on it. Luckily, I have the original paperwork from 2016 showing as much.

But do you see how poor people, unorganized people, etc, may fall victim to these kind of audits? Are they tax cheats? Are they gaming the system? No. The system simply doesn’t know they aren’t, and most peoples lives are such clusterfucks that they’ll likely be rammed by these new policies.

Just wait till they start taxing regular folks breathing oxygen, enjoying sunshine, having basic human rights, etc.

It's all quantifiable and countable, with "modern technology"...

 

[I Am Legion]

It’s your own fault if it’s spent on bullshit, that’s why you vote. I agree they should also go after the high earners, but that doesn’t dismiss “regular” people to be hold accountable for not complying.

You realize this raises the taxes you currently pay? So people like me that does pay his taxes will still pay more for people that cheat them. Does that sound fair? You libs love to raise taxes...

 

[helltoupee]

Funny how it was ok until 1917.

Do you even know where taxes came from and why people had to pay them, starting then?

So do you live like it's 1917 right now?

I will agree with you that taxes should be lower, no question. Especially for the middle class who have been stuck with a higher and higher percentage of the bill ever since Reagan. We can discuss things like how can the Pentagon still to this day fail to produce a successful audit? How can Don Rumsfeld just announce on TV (which was the day before 09/11, how convenient) that $3 Trillion dollars was "unaccounted for", ie., missing? How does $3 trillion just go missing? Shit, if you are some average Joe who works at Subway and has a few thousand disappear on his shift, he loses his job and possibly his freedom. Or we can talk about military contracts where you and I are essentially footing the bill for the contractor's R&D, yet when it comes time to see the fruits of those investments, they are most certainly privatized in to the hands of a few individuals. Don't even get me started on the colossal behemoth that the War on Drugs has turned in to, sucking up billions every year.

So I will certainly agree that the bureaucracy has gotten out of hand, and we largely experience government by the rich, for the rich, in the US, whereby the middle class has been enlisted by the rich to pay even some of the wealthy's tax burden (thank every Republican since Reagan). But attempting to compare the realities of the country and every day life in 1917 to what is now just doesn't work. Just look at the difference in population. There was barely even a middle class in 1917, which did not explode in to what we take for granted now until after WW2.

 

[I Am Legion]

That's not true at all, if your business model has tax evasion as a cornerstone, that's not a worthwhile business to have

And no, you're not accountable for how that money is spent. If you charge someone 400K to build them a house, they sign the contract and agree to it, and you build them a house to the blueprint specified and up to code with all inclusions specified in the contract and charge them 400k, then there's no issue if you then used 50K of that profit to buy a boat because you managed to build it at a higher margin than initially expected. You don't have to give that 50K back to the homebuyer, unless the contract was a T&M.

You are accountable for profit not what you charge. You lay out costs and materials. The government has rates and what you are allowed to charge for labor, and then you provide proof of materials etc. If you charge 400k and it cost you 300k to do, you pay tax on 100k. You can buy a boat with that if you want, but that has nothing to do with the math. But then you will also pay tax on the boat. And when you sell it someone pays tax again......

 

[welcometohavoc]

Where is the gov cheating and stealing on taxes? Yeah, way too fucking many pet projects and defense in the budget that if removed should let the national tax rate drop, but in regards to cheating it's mainly the big businesses and wealthy individuals cheating on their taxes and the IRS is toothless to go after them, so they pick on the little guy to get a little back here and there.

The top 1% income earners account for 40% of tax revenue in this country. That's more than the bottom 90% combined.

The issue isn't that they don't pay enough taxes, problem is progressives and socialists think even more money should be taxed from the wealthy to fund their insane programs