School Sex Ed

First of all, that's not a realistic scenario unless said couple never talk to their friends about their sex lives, and aren't exposed at all to popular media (let alone porn), and don't communicate at all in the bedroom because that leads to experimentation.

Fine, replace 'oral sex' with something more racy like 'analingus' or 'bondage'. Normal people enjoy those things too, but I'm guessing it's unlikely there are many married Christian couples out buying riding crops for the bedroom (maybe I'm selling them short, who knows). Though I don't know that porn is a good argument since my guess is if you're militant about no sex before marriage you're probably not a big consumer of porn, plus porn sex is nothing like real sex.

Secondly, there is no right way to enjoy sex (not talking about perversions here, just the standard stuff). Everybody thinks the sex they're having is especially great, once they find someone they enjoy it with. This is also a problem that an overly sexualised culture both creates and solves.

True enough, and again I'm not saying you can't have a satisfying sex life with only one partner your whole life. I'm merely suggesting that there are probably things you'd enjoy that you aren't going to experience with just one person and as such you'll probably miss out on a variety of sexual experience. But that's far from the worst thing that can happen to a person in their lives.

People's attitudes go beyond just celebrating the pleasure of sex, to insisting their sex is superior (making them superior people with superior lives). You have people who are so prideful of their personal sex habits that they actually shame others who don't share their experience. Ironically, it's a moralizing sort of pride, where they're casting themselves as these enlightened free spirits who've risen above the boring-sex-having plebes.

You think the big problem with sexual self righteousness in this country is swingers looking down on Christians? That's pretty much 180 degrees from the actual situation vs-a-vie sexual moralizing.

See, where are you getting this image from? This is something that's been offered up to all of us who've grown up watching TV and movies: Boring prudish (religious!) people have missionary sex, the guy comes fast, the girl doesn't enjoy it.

What about straight missionary style hard fucking where the girl comes multiple times? You don't even need to know what oral sex is, to do that.

And that's something every woman can experience, with every man (and therefore in every marriage)? What do you do when that doesn't work, or starts not working? Pray harder?

I hope Christians have good sex lives just like I hope everyone has a good sex life because it's an important component of life, but it's hard for me to believe that they do when they seem so hostile to sex except under very specifically defined conditions. The idea that sex is sinful and wrong is pretty deeply embedded in Christian culture and it's a very harmful idea that does no one any good, and so I do get a little offended when representatives of that culture go on about how great your sex life is if you have only one partner because they have no fucking clue about anybody else's sex life and no standard of comparison for their own.
 
I pretty specifically stated that the more important aspect is whether or not you're satisfied with your sex life, but let me give you an example to explain what I mean.

So let's say you'd really like oral sex (in theory), but you've never had it. And your wife has never given it. You don't even know it exists, or at least you've never thought to ask about it. Given that you and your wife are ignorant of it or perhaps just too embarrassed to ask/do it, your entire life you're never going to get a BJ. Now, that doesn't mean your sex life can't be satisfying but you're missing out on something you'd really like simply because your total monogamy has led to you and your partner being ignorant of a whole spectrum of sexual experience. Whereas if you'd have a few partners chances are both of you would have been exposed to a much greater realm of options which you could bring into your marriage to help satisfy each other. You'd know what you liked, what you didn't like, and be able to ask for it.

I don't think that really works. There are plenty of sexual acts people might like but have never tried. I can't see the negative component if they're happy with what they do know.

I've never had a gerbil up my ass - I might love it. But I've been content with my sex life without that experience.

I think it's da ownside of too many people's personal sex lives becoming treated like common conversation, this idea that we must all explore the very edges of sexuality or that being happy with simple sex is somehow a loss to the people involved. It's kind of unsettling and I say this with no personal qualms as to being as explorative as I could have possibly been prior to marriage.
 
The idea that someone would get an extra thrill outta popping cherries might be very real, but seems pretty backwards to me. To each their own, I guess, but usually there is a pretty gnarly imbalance going on with cherry poppers, if not outright deviancy.

I'd agree that sex is sex, and like anything else in the world, that means it is what you make of it. However, just as a man might think Chef Boyardee is good Italian food if he's never had anything better. Subjectively, he might be right in that, in his world, it is literally the best Italian food he's ever had. However, that doesn't mean that Chef Boyardee is objectively the best Italian food in the world. Similarly, someone might be able to dupe themselves into thinking that their single orgasm for guy, no orgasm for girl, missionary-style poking is pretty kickass, but that doesn't mean that it is.

I don't think your first paragraph really applies to what we're talking about but I do agree that there's something wrong with someone who's attracted to virginity in their partners while refusing to value virginity in themselves. Those people (mostly guys for some reason) always give me the heebie-jeebies.

As to your second paragraph, if the guy likes Chef Boyardee then let him like it. It doesn't have to be the objectively best Italian food in the world unless what he subjectively likes is somehow objectively important to anyone but himself.

And for someone people, straight forward missionary sex is pretty kickass, especially if done right. I can't speak to the no orgasm for the girl thing, I put in work regardless of the position. So she's getting off if I have to be there all night. :icon_lol:
 
The idea that sex is sinful and wrong is pretty deeply embedded in Christian culture and it's a very harmful idea that does no one any good, and so I do get a little offended when representatives of that culture go on about how great your sex life is if you have only one partner because they have no fucking clue about anybody else's sex life and no standard of comparison for their own.

Are you sure that's what you mean? I thought it was only considered sinful and wrong when done outside of marriage. I'm no biblical scholar so correct me if I'm wrong on that.
 
Fine, replace 'oral sex' with something more racy like 'analingus' or 'bondage'. Normal people enjoy those things too, but I'm guessing it's unlikely there are many married Christian couples out buying riding crops for the bedroom (maybe I'm selling them short, who knows). Though I don't know that porn is a good argument since my guess is if you're militant about no sex before marriage you're probably not a big consumer of porn, plus porn sex is nothing like real sex.

I'm not sure how unlikely it is. While religion did suppress aspects of sexuality, it was with good intent: Maintaining healthy families. You have to keep in mind, in biblical times all manner of perversity was commonplace, and I'm not talking about analingus. I tend to think the intention of religion wasn't to keep husbands from eating pussy and ass. Of course, like with all aspects of the big bad religions, teachings and customs are easily misinterpreted and I won't speak for the righteousness of religious people through the centuries.

I'll give you an example, take de Sade. If you read some of his stuff, even aside from the extremely perverse and criminal elements, he muses at length on basic things like oral sex in provocative away that makes it evident these things were kept private. Where did he figure this stuff out, in 18th century Christian France? I think much of the population experimented to their own satisfaction, but because of religious influence you kept it to yourself.


True enough, and again I'm not saying you can't have a satisfying sex life with only one partner your whole life. I'm merely suggesting that there are probably things you'd enjoy that you aren't going to experience with just one person and as such you'll probably miss out on a variety of sexual experience. But that's far from the worst thing that can happen to a person in their lives.

Number of sexual partners has no bearing on happiness, it's whether the individual is having the amount and quality of sex that they personally desire. Of course, desires can be destructive to yourself and others. It's not a good thing to indulge every desire on a whim, desires should be tempered, and religion serves this purpose, but you see how this intention can be twisted around in the human mind.

You think the big problem with sexual self righteousness in this country is swingers looking down on Christians? That's pretty much 180 degrees from the actual situation vs-a-vie sexual moralizing.

That's why I said it's ironic, and the knife cuts both ways, so I wouldn't say it's "the big problem".


And that's something every woman can experience, with every man (and therefore in every marriage)? What do you do when that doesn't work, or starts not working? Pray harder?

Obviously not, everyone is different and a lot of woman don't orgasm as much as they'd like. What I'm trying to illustrate is that people are programmed, when they think of missionary sex, to think about it in a specific way. Why is bad missionary sex more plausible than good missionary sex?

I hope Christians have good sex lives just like I hope everyone has a good sex life because it's an important component of life, but it's hard for me to believe that they do when they seem so hostile to sex except under very specifically defined conditions. The idea that sex is sinful and wrong is pretty deeply embedded in Christian culture and it's a very harmful idea that does no one any good, and so I do get a little offended when representatives of that culture go on about how great your sex life is if you have only one partner because they have no fucking clue about anybody else's sex life and no standard of comparison for their own.

So you get insecure when someone tells you they're happy having taken a different path in life, and feel the need to defend yourself and your experiences. It's normal.

Sin is a whole other discussion, my interpretation of sin is that it's more benign than most people understand it to be, but I'm not going to start in-depth on religion.

The thing with this sex ed curriculum is that it's a faceless state authority not just educating teenagers about sex, but dictating to them what is morally acceptable. Telling boys "Real men go down on women on their period" is a opinion about what is masculine, it goes beyond sex ed into feminist politics.

Bolded.
 

I actually argued against values based sex ed, and I maintain that stance. I think it's bad for both Christians and non-religious people because in some areas sex ed is going to be overly liberal for religious people and in others it will be overly Christian for non-religious people. You can talk about the physical facts of sex without endorsing specific attitudes or beliefs, and that's what you should do. This will get hard sometimes when addressing things like homosexuality, but it's what schools should strive for IMO.
 
Are you sure that's what you mean? I thought it was only considered sinful and wrong when done outside of marriage. I'm no biblical scholar so correct me if I'm wrong on that.

The official stance of the Catholic church for centuries (and maybe still for all I know) is that sex is for procreation inside marriage only, hence the prohibitions on birth control. And certainly the inherent sinfulness of sex was a big theme for the Puritans and other fairly extreme religious orders who helped to found this country. I'm not sure how you can see something like a chastity ball and not think that conservative Christians are pretty anti-sex in general.
 
Why is it that values are bad? Doesn't society need some values and norms?
 
I don't think that really works. There are plenty of sexual acts people might like but have never tried. I can't see the negative component if they're happy with what they do know.

I've never had a gerbil up my ass - I might love it. But I've been content with my sex life without that experience.

I think it's da ownside of too many people's personal sex lives becoming treated like common conversation, this idea that we must all explore the very edges of sexuality or that being happy with simple sex is somehow a loss to the people involved. It's kind of unsettling and I say this with no personal qualms as to being as explorative as I could have possibly been prior to marriage.

For the 9th time, I'm not arguing that you can't have a satisfying sex life having very plain vanilla sex with only one partner ever. My argument is pretty simple, that you're not going to have the same breadth of experience if you only have sex with one person and you very well may miss out on parts of the amazing variety of human sexual experience that you would have really liked. It's really not that important except as a counter-argument to people, mostly religious, who argue that all you need is one partner ever and that their experiences of satisfying sex lives are the pinnacle of what their sex lives could be. That's probably not the case, and they shouldn't insist that others follow that path or that it's taught as the 'right' way to behave in school. This is after all a thread about sex ed not sex.
 
Why is it that values are bad? Doesn't society need some values and norms?

Absolutely. But values and norms surrounding sex are very culturally and religiously sensitive and I'm not comfortable with the government (in the form of schools) dictating which of those values my kids learn. I think this protects people on both sides of the culture wars, from the conservative Christian in Marin county to the atheist in small town Mississippi. Schools can talk about the biological facts of sex while doing the best they can to steer clear of value statements past 'don't rape people' and other very basic statements about sexual morality that are non-controversial (not that there are many).
 
Anyone else notice they used sherdog's own Marlboro man's photo for the douchebag slide?

sex-ed-pic.jpg
 
Ha nothing wrong with those slides.

I teach in a catholic school and just finished doing sex ed for my 5th graders. The guidelines I got from administration was a 3 page booklet, 2 of which contained nothing but scripture readings...

Can you post up the booklet?

Sounds like interesting reading.
 
Your sexual relationship with your wife is sacred. Because it is only for her. Your body is not meant for anyone outside of that. That is why it's sacred. Yes it should be fun, pleasureful, fantastic etc. That is what it is meant for IMO.

Marriage is something that was made up, which a bunch of people follow because they've been taught to follow it for ages.

So you say a few words, buy a ring, and all of a sudden it's sacred, right? :rolleyes:
 
How? If both she and I have no idea what we are doing beyond putting it in a wiggling it around, how the hell am I going to figure out the g-spot, the best motions for clit stimulation, how to give head to a woman? Best thing I ever did for my married sex life was sleep with horny, experienced chicks in high school. That and watch porn.

yea, I guess there is no way of figuring that shit out with your wife. You had to fuck 30 girls and she had to take 25 dicks in the ass to figure out how to please here future husband.

Ever hear of a book or a video?

Practice all you want with your wife, she shouldn't have to have trains ran on her for her to figure out what you may like in the future.


LOL

NCORDLESS---"THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO MY SEX LIFE IS MY WIFE TAKING MULTIPLE DICKS AND GETTING TRAINS RAN ON HER WHEN SHE WAS YOUNGER. IT HELPED HER REALIZE WHAT I MAY LIKE IN THE FUTURE"
 
That's absurd. You can learn with your wife just like anyone else. It's not rocket science.

If YOU want to learn with your fucking wife, then do so. Stop telling other people to do that. Teach the FACTS, both good and bad when it comes to sex, and let people decide what they want to do.

Waiting on marriage is one of the absolute stupidest things I've ever heard of, but hey, if you like that, go with it.
 
Why is it that values are bad? Doesn't society need some values and norms?

Who gets to choose what values they want to have. If mine are different than yours, it must mean I should force you to try and adopt mine, right?
 
yea, I guess there is no way of figuring that shit out with your wife. You had to fuck 30 girls and she had to take 25 dicks in the ass to figure out how to please here future husband.

Ever hear of a book or a video?

Practice all you want with your wife, she shouldn't have to have trains ran on her for her to figure out what you may like in the future.


LOL

NCORDLESS---"THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO MY SEX LIFE IS MY WIFE TAKING MULTIPLE DICKS AND GETTING TRAINS RAN ON HER WHEN SHE WAS YOUNGER. IT HELPED HER REALIZE WHAT I MAY LIKE IN THE FUTURE"

Actually, you'd be correct. A girl having sex leads her to know what she likes, as it does with you.

But, keep educating me on sex please. I mean, I'd love for a guy who's had sex with 1 person (if that) in his life to be my sexual educator. I mean, I'd really want a math teacher who could only do his times tables, or a hockey player who can only take a slap shot to tell me the ins and the outs of the game as well. Keep it up good sir, I'm learning!

PS: The female orgasm is a myth too! It's not only you who can't make it happen...it doesn't exist!
 
Actually, you'd be correct. A girl having sex leads her to know what she likes, as it does with you.

But, keep educating me on sex please. I mean, I'd love for a guy who's had sex with 1 person (if that) in his life to be my sexual educator. I mean, I'd really want a math teacher who could only do his times tables, or a hockey player who can only take a slap shot to tell me the ins and the outs of the game as well. Keep it up good sir, I'm learning!

PS: The female orgasm is a myth too! It's not only you who can't make it happen...it doesn't exist!

So a guy that has had sex with his wife thousands of times can't teach a virgin like you how to have sex?

You idiots think that if you only have sex with one person that you only have sex one time.
 
Actually, you'd be correct. A girl having sex leads her to know what she likes, as it does with you.

But, keep educating me on sex please. I mean, I'd love for a guy who's had sex with 1 person (if that) in his life to be my sexual educator. I mean, I'd really want a math teacher who could only do his times tables, or a hockey player who can only take a slap shot to tell me the ins and the outs of the game as well. Keep it up good sir, I'm learning!

PS: The female orgasm is a myth too! It's not only you who can't make it happen...it doesn't exist!

that's cool, you take the girl that was getting dP'ed by the football team and I'll take the more selective girl. We can find out what we like together.

I don't need to hear that I may like what she is about to do because she did it to 25 other dudes last year.
 
that's cool, you take the girl that was getting dP'ed by the football team and I'll take the more selective girl. We can find out what we like together.

I don't need to hear that I may like what she is about to do because she did it to 25 other dudes last year.

I legit lol'd. Don't worry, he'll see what you're talking about whenever he actually gets to experience it.
 
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