Schaub, Jon Anik and Florian go at it regarding fighter pay on podcast

I find myself siding with Schaub an awful lot. Anik's a nice guy but in this conversation, he may as well have been a PR agent for the UFC. He was just defending his employer, fair enough I suppose, but I don't put much weight into anything he says here.
 
Apparently "I love the UFC" = "I love bitching about the UFC non stop"

I thought Brendan is doing well selling T shirts. Why so bitter and butthurt?

Tim Kennedy, Brendan Schaub...all these people bitching about the Reebok sponsorship always fail to mention that NOBODY is stopping them from getting extra sponsors. The UFC literally only requires them to wear Reebok like what, 6 days out of every year? For crying out loud, quit whining and go get as many sponsors as you want for the rest of the year. Ronda Rousey gets apparel sponsors, game sponsors, fast food sponsors, movie deals, said some shit about DNB on a video and next thing you know she's sold 40,000 DNB T-shirts....

If a butterfaced 135 lbs chick with extreme BO can do it, why can't Brendan Schaub? Why can't Tim Kennedy? These whiners need to stop blaming the UFC and Reebok for your own incompetence and do something for themselves. You don't see Ronda Rousey sitting on her ass bitching about the state of WMMA and how it's not even in the UFC in 2011. Don't bitch about the environment, CHANGE the environment. Tim Kenney is supposed to be some special forces badass yet in reality he's mentally weaker than a chick with daddy issues. Weak.
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The UFC cares about making money for the UFC.
 
youre such a shill

Right, I'm a UFC shill who tells people UFC 194 isn't worth buying.

Keep resorting to ad hominem though because it's not like you can actually argue for a point.
 
I don't know what it is about Anik - perhaps it's because I perceive him as the antithesis of White - but I simply believe everything he says. The UFC definitely needs to retain him on the payroll in order to continue maintain their credibility in debates such as these.

As for the facts and figures, I don't know and I don't care. Fighters aren't indentured servants, so if they believe they're being underpaid in the UFC, they have numerous options at their disposal. And if the situation is that horiffic yet people still remain on the UFC roster, well, I question just how "underpaid" their employees are.

The UFC doesn't need to change their pay structure simply because people disagree with them, perceive it as being wrong, or because other sports organizations do things differently. The free market will ultimately dictate if Zuffa can sustain this pay structure.
 
That's the logic you are not following. If companies are no longer willing to sponsor fighters because they have to wear Reebok during 6 out of 365 days a year, then that means the companies do not see actual value in the fighters, but rather in their exposure on the UFC platform. They are basically putting the sponsorship logos on the UFC, not the fighters as an individuals. As such, the UFC is 100% within their rights to control the sponsor revenue however they see fit.



In other words, Brendan Schaub doesn't get paid enough because he's not good enough, and isn't marketable enough. Which part of that is the UFC and Reebok's fault? It's very typical of the weak and the feeble to blame others for their own failures.

You look at where Rousey is now but what you don't see is how much of a worse spot she was in compared to Schaub she started MMA. She was a completely nobody dating some drug addict, didn't have any Kimborized TUF exposure, WMMA wasn't even in the UFC. But you didn't see her sitting on her ass going "waaah waaah waaah! Dana White said no women in the UFC I can't make money this is so unfair I feel so undervalued waaaaaaah!" But this is exactly what Schaub and Tim Kennedy are doing. Kennedy is supposed to be a badass special forces dude yet he's even weaker mentally than Ronda Rousey. Ronda Rousey - the chick that if you called her fat she'll be crying for 2 weeks before making a "I'm not fat I'm festively plum F the haters" T-shirt to make herself feel better. Think about how pathetic that makes Tim Kennedy for a second.

I understand where you're coming from, but that's not right.

Let's take into consideration Soccer( not sure if you follow, but it's the best I can come up with).
All teams have sponsors. By your logic they don't deserve the sponsor's money, it should go to the Federation organizing the event? And soccer players even get paid money for their image rights.

UFC already takes all the money from tickets and most of the money from PPV. One day they decide they want to change things and fighters are winning a lot less money in sponsorship (including Reebok's ridiculous pay). How's that fair? Every fighter should have gotten a raise to compensate, especially because the fighter pay/company profit rate is so fucked up.

Also, just as the fighters take advantage of the UFC's exposure, the UFC takes advantage of a fighter's fame and talent. UFC is nothing without their fighters, they should really value then more.
 
Schaub's math is simply straight out whack, as are most of the "estimates" that shoddy articles like the ESPN article regarding fighter pay espouse. There's not a functional active business on the planet that can operate on 10% labor cost. Maybe you could make that argument if the UFC was a hedge fund or something (passive business), but an active business with employees and contractors? Not fiscally possible.

Just doing a napkin calculation, let's take UFC 190. Only 1 title fight.

1M PPV's @ $60 = $60M. 50% goes to the cable distributor. 50% to the UFC. That leaves $30M.

Rousey cleared $3M-$5M for that fight. So, by herself she's taking 10-20% of the UFC's PPV revenue.

Toss in that the UFC is actually paying all the fighters on the card varying amounts, the production staff for broadcast, all the staff to build and tear down the venue, the staff to transport equipment to and from the venue, staff to co-ordinate fight night, staff to manage and produce the media and marketing events, the staff back at the UFC HQ necessary to manage the marketing, production and merchandising ends, support staff to handle legal clearances, visa's, tax submissions, staff to co-ordinate with PPV providers and broadcasters, etc, etc, etc.

And that's with only ONE title holder on the card versus a card like UFC 194 where you'll have 2 current title holders (Aldo, Weidman), 1 interim title holder (McGregor) and a challenger (Rockhold), all of whom except Rockhold will have guaranteed PPV percentages. Their percentages don't go down just because they have more title holders on the card. They still get their $1-$3+ per buy above 100K or whatever their contract threshold is.

In other words, 10% for all the UFC's employees is so far out of the realm of reason that it's patently absurd.

Fertitta said point blank during an interview that the UFC's labor costs are comparable to other major sports which would put it at closer to 45-50%. I doubt it's quite that high, but 30-45% is well within the realm of reason. Hell, even your local restaurant will run 30-35% labor cost.

Now, the only really valid point that Schaub made in his discussion is that the changes the UFC are making doesn't make a difference to him because he won't be around to benefit from most of the sacrifices of the current fighters.

Just like the previous generation of fighters didn't benefit from the current state of the UFC, this generation won't benefit nearly as much as the next generation of fighters.

That doesn't mean that the UFC is evil, it means that the UFC and the fighters have different objectives. The UFC is looking to both grow their business and earn profits just as every other business on the planet.

The fighters are looking to maximize their earnings and for the most part don't care about the future of the sport as a whole if it conflicts with their retirement savings. That's perfectly understandable as the fighters need to look out for themselves.

It's called differing objectives and motives. This happens in every business when you have profit and growth pitted against worker earnings. The only question is where that balance will eventually settle.
 
It is still not a sport. Laughable that you get paid due to your appeal to the masses rather than your production and value as a martial artist. It is an entertainment company that pays the fighter for how much they can entertain people, not how good you are. Nothing wrong with entertainment, though. Still not a sport.

Absolutely correct.
If you only you can convince everyone on Sherdog of this...
 
I understand where you're coming from, but that's not right.

Let's take into consideration Soccer( not sure if you follow, but it's the best I can come up with).

I will stop you right there. How many days per year do soccer players player soccer with their jerseys on? How many days per year do fighters have to fight with their Reebok uniform on.

Let's not even begin to mention how football is a completely different beast compared to a fringe sport like MMA. Your "analogy" is completely invalid.

Here's a fact for you to consider: nearly 40% of the private wealth in the US is held by 1% of its population. That shows you how things work in general. The UFC isn't doing anything out of the ordinary. These fighters need to deal with it, or make the changes for themselves. Dana White said no WMMA in the UFC ever, Rousey went out there and changed that. In comparison, "Captain America" Tim Kenney runs around and whines about the Reebok deal on podcasts.
 
Schaub is right. Anik's a stooge.

I think it's more a case of good cop bad cop. It makes for a wider debate and covers both sides of the arguments. Well done to all of them for getting down to the nitty gritty
 
Apparently "I love the UFC" = "I love bitching about the UFC non stop"

I thought Brendan is doing well selling T shirts. Why so bitter and butthurt?

Tim Kennedy, Brendan Schaub...all these people bitching about the Reebok sponsorship always fail to mention that NOBODY is stopping them from getting extra sponsors. The UFC literally only requires them to wear Reebok like what, 6 days out of every year? For crying out loud, quit whining and go get as many sponsors as you want for the rest of the year. Ronda Rousey gets apparel sponsors, game sponsors, fast food sponsors, movie deals, said some shit about DNB on a video and next thing you know she's sold 40,000 DNB T-shirts....

If a butterfaced 135 lbs chick with extreme BO can do it, why can't Brendan Schaub? Why can't Tim Kennedy? These whiners need to stop blaming the UFC and Reebok for your own incompetence and do something for themselves. You don't see Ronda Rousey sitting on her ass bitching about the state of WMMA and how it's not even in the UFC in 2011. Don't bitch about the environment, CHANGE the environment. Tim Kenney is supposed to be some special forces badass yet in reality he's mentally weaker than a chick with daddy issues. Weak.

You sound more bitter towards Schaubs success than Schaub is towards the ufc.
 
It is still not a sport. Laughable that you get paid due to your appeal to the masses rather than your production and value as a martial artist. It is an entertainment company that pays the fighter for how much they can entertain people, not how good you are. Nothing wrong with entertainment, though. Still not a sport.

Do you consider boxing a sport?
 
I can't believe I'm saying this AGAIN. But I'm with Schaub on this one.

Private company? WTF is that sh*t?

How do they pay taxes if no one knows what they make?

They either be honest with their tax form when they ask did you make over 2000 untaxed dollars or say no and hide that extra money like a Chinese food restaurant owner.
 
It is still not a sport. Laughable that you get paid due to your appeal to the masses rather than your production and value as a martial artist. It is an entertainment company that pays the fighter for how much they can entertain people, not how good you are. Nothing wrong with entertainment, though. Still not a sport.

you're talking bullshit

the valued martial artist ARE the ones who appeal to the masses those are the top guys who are paid handsomely.
as for entertaining fighters getting paid the big money i agree with that fully i mean do you think guys who dry hump each other and play tag for 3 rounds straight should be awarded with big paydays? nobody in their damn mind wants to watch a boring fight far less pay for it but i mean hey lets give fucking Cathal Pendred $500k because he shows up right?

a lot of you including Shaub wants these guys to make millions because you compare it to sports basketball and Soccer but lettuce be real here the UFC isn't anywhere near as lucrative as those leagues its like demanding a backyard wrestling company pay their guys $10million because Floyd makes $30 million in one fight in boxing

im %100 sure if some of you clowns took control of the ufc it would go bankrupt within a year there are other expenses beside fighter pay don't know why that's so hard to understand
 
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What some people like Schaub, seem to miss is that in the NHL, NBA and NFL the athletes didn't get paid like they do now. If we take look at the UFC as having started in 1993 and the Unified rules ie Modern UFC being established in 2000 that like looking at the NHL circa 1900, the NFL about the same and the NBA maybe the 1940-50's which is actually before the NBA. The UFC is moving towards being a bit of a hybrid between pure prize fighting as boxing has been for ever and a league sport. The champions and popular name fighters will always get a giant piece of the pie relative to the other fighters on the roster but I believe that Zuffa is trying to pay guys more to raise the base level.

Zuffa needs greater control over the entire product to get it to the level of the major sports. Having Condom Depot on fighters asses is laughable. Dynamic Fastener and other silly sponsors, while nice for the fighter getting the extra cash doesn't help the image of the UFC and the sport overall.

Its a debate over the needs of the individual who wants every penny he can get in the short run over the needs of the organization who wants the business to grow over the long run.
 
Dana White said no WMMA in the UFC ever, Rousey went out there and changed that. In comparison, "Captain America" Tim Kenney runs around and whines about the Reebok deal on podcasts.

This is brilliant, sir.

Some people search for excuses, while others search for solutions. And this far, the wrong mouthpieces are spearheading the "Better Pay for UFC Fighters" campaign.
 
I think it's more a case of good cop bad cop. It makes for a wider debate and covers both sides of the arguments. Well done to all of them for getting down to the nitty gritty

Fair point.
Knee-jerk response on my part.
 
Schaub is just speaking his mind and its not even that radical stuff that he says. 90% of time he is hyping up UFC, talking about the fighters, fights etc. The consequences he faces just because he speaks his mind are so unfair and show how far the sport still has to go.
 
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