Scaring away the new guys (kinda long)

I'm a shitty white belt myself, but with several years of no gi to fall back on, so I often surprise the other white belts in no gi class, but get wrecked in gi class. So, I kind of see both sides of this coin pretty regularly. I think, like with anything, there's a balance to be struck. Ultimately, to stick with bjj you need to be ok with some itpret intense physical discomfort and ego smashing, but too much too soon can shatter someone.

I try to be gentle on very new guys, while still showing the art. I play a lot of guard, so I sweep em and sub them, but as gently and slowly as I can. In a strange way, I think it makes them feel even more helpless.

Once they start to get a little knowledge, I let them work stuff. Then one day, when they're starting to become more competitive, I turn up the intensity to show them how it really feels.

I also regularly feel the higher belts do this to me. Just when I think I'm making progress, they turn it up a notch and I'm helpless again haha.

Our coach also picks every partner for every roll, so here's very much in control of the whole process, which definitely helps.
 
I think a lot of this is on your instructor. One of the biggest mistakes I see a lot of instructors make is thinking the coaching stops when the rolling starts. I think coaches generally should monitor mat behavior, and set a general tone of how people should interact. Along these lines, the coach can place different people together, and give specific instructions to one or both for how to approach the roll. Additionally, the instructor can apply helpful restrictions to a given round ("only armbars") rather than just every roll being a fight to the death.

If I'm coaching, I don't roll. In the very few times injuries happen, it's hardly ever on my watch. Unless the room is full of the experienced regulars. If I know a person in inexperienced or never done anything grappling related before, I'll pair them up one of the other instructors (we roster our classes) and tell them what the person knows and get them to only fire the techniques the new person knows and can recognise.
 
When Hulk Hogan decided he wanted to become a wrestler he trained with the legendary Hiro Matsuda. On his first day a stable of veterans did one of those aforementioned tests by "exercising him until he was going to faint," and then they took it up a notch and broke his leg. When he returned months later (without the police) they realized how dedicated he was. A year later he was already on the pro circuit.
 
The mats in our gym are so overcrowded nowadays it makes no sense to go light on anyone male and not injured.
 
The mats in our gym are so overcrowded nowadays it makes no sense to go light on anyone male and not injured.

It takes more space to roll easy? or you have to sit out rounds due to overcrowding? or you are full to the brim so you don't need to worry about getting new students?
 
Ragdolling white belts is weak and it’s bad for business.
 
I honestly don't see anything wrong with what you wrote. If jiu jitsu is an effective martial art, people need to learn it is effective by having it applied on them. If you know what you're doing, you can go hard on someone with there being very little risk of injury. You get better at jiu jitsu because you don't want to get smashed.

^
This is stupid. White belts, especially the one OP describes, need to be encouraged and built up to withstand the rigorous of BJJ. Its easy to smash them and make excuses that they're "weak" or "pussies" . The hard part is putting in the time to develop a team mate. Not everyone that walks into BJJ is Alpha. Encouragement and mentoring goes a long way.

They'll wash out on their own without initially grinding the shit out of them. This is just as bad as counting Gym Taps.

On the other side, this attitude is detrimental to the business aspect of the academy.
 
or you are full to the brim so you don't need to worry about getting new students?

There is sometimes too little space to drill some things and people are I have to stop the roll a few times each way to move out of the way of some white belt falling into me and not noticing during the roll so I don't get injured (so there is enough space only after people pussy out and don't roll during later rounds). Also people are being routinely recruited to the beginners class.
 
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I honestly don't see anything wrong with what you wrote. If jiu jitsu is an effective martial art, people need to learn it is effective by having it applied on them. If you know what you're doing, you can go hard on someone with there being very little risk of injury. You get better at jiu jitsu because you don't want to get smashed.
I think there’s a difference in eras. Until the 2010s or so I never saw anyone really sticking with bjj that wasn’t more into fighting and getting hooked because they got beat up and felt how effective it is.

Now a lot of people are checking out bjj because of podcasts like Joe Rogan and Sam Harris. It’s also being branded like surfing as a lifestyle activity. As such, I’ve noticed more people getting into the art recently that for lack of a better word just seem to be softer.

As a gym owner I think are now having to consider more than before how hard they want brand new people to spar and I’ve even seen some schools now wanting white belts to wait a month or so...and sparring is what got a lot of us hooked.

There is a balance. Newbies have to know this is real and feel its power, but once you own a school or out yourself in the owners shoes you realize it’s bad for business to scare away white belts or tool them without building them up too.
 
I guess on the bright side he scares off the homophobes.
If I were his coach I'd let him open his own gym with a big banner "Come here if you want to be touched by a gay!" right after I learned that I lost a paying customer to his **** ideas.
 
I guess I'm pretty torn on this as well. I've been training for 12 years, and when I started it was very much a tough guys club. Being a small guy, I took constant beating from bigger dudes, or from everyone really. But that made me love Jiu Jitsu. Maybe you have to be a little bit of a masochist to really love this sport. But I loved how difficult it was, and you could tell how legit it was by how easilly I was handled by everyone.

I feel like having to go through this phase is a valuable experience for almost everyone. That said, I now help a few of my buddies teach at a school they opened up a few years ago and I can see the need to go easy on some types - at least from a business perspective. I try to walk a line when I roll with the white belts. A lot of them are really tough and don't want me to go easy on them. But some are older, weaker, unconfident, weak etc. And I will gift them positions, let them work, and eventually slowly apply a submission when they do something really sloppy so I can show them where they screwed up.
 
If I were his coach I'd let him open his own gym with a big banner "Come here if you want to be touched by a gay!" right after I learned that I lost a paying customer to his **** ideas.

He'd probably attract quite a few of a certain kind of clientele if he did that.
 
If I'm coaching, I don't roll. In the very few times injuries happen, it's hardly ever on my watch. Unless the room is full of the experienced regulars. If I know a person in inexperienced or never done anything grappling related before, I'll pair them up one of the other instructors (we roster our classes) and tell them what the person knows and get them to only fire the techniques the new person knows and can recognise.

I think instructors also have a lot to offer the higher belts vs. higher belts during rolling sessions. More than just being a safety issue, or a social issue, rolling sessions are highly instructive moments that are often neglected by the person who could be doing the instructing. It would be like a ballet choreographer teaching you the steps, drilling them a few times, and then just being like "alright, dance!"
 
Yeah I dunno. When I got/get smashed I’m like “damn this dude is good, and he learned it here, they must know what they are doing”
But a lot of egos can’t handle it. I think some guys just get frustrated when they have no idea what to do.

Like others have said our coach really keeps an eye on that stuff. He’ll be like “he’s knew so go ahead and roll but if he makes an obvious mistake help him out”. Which I think is a good balance. So they experience the presh, but aren’t just helplessly taking a beating for the sparring end of class.

The only time it doesn’t work is when they ultra hard and you have to turn it up to match.
 
For every person that comes home with gi scratches on their face, there's another that won't come back.
Whaaaa! Who cares? There are soft ass BJJ academies and tough academies.
I'd rather be in a room full of killers.
 
I go easy on white belts, but if a big strong white belt tries to hurt me I will put them down and punish them. I am 35 fucking years old, and I will have no mercy on a big strong 22 year old with an ego problem. So, it depends on how they roll with me. If they show me no mercy and it feels like a "fight", then I will punish them.
 
I just remembered this story and was laughing to myself while sitting here at work bored as hell. I’ll share it. It’s really not that funny but I laughed like hell when it happened. I would also like your input on this issue as well.

We were in class and this white belt, who had been there a couple of months but inconsistent, shows up. It’s a class of blue, purple and brown belts. There are no other white belts in class.

This white belt, is one of those guys who has never done any type of physical activity in his life. He isn’t a fat ass but he is weak and doesn’t know how to move his body. I don’t find anything wrong with this and I am happy he is coming to class to fix this.

So we do techniques and it’s time to spar. This class is a little more advanced and we are having some hard sparring rounds. Even the purple belt female is on fire. As a side note. She has a killer guard and is always moving, I hate being stuck in her guard, you just can’t pass it, and I outweigh her by 50 pounds.

Anyway, I make my way through the gauntlet of these jerks (I call my training partners that lovingly) who are always trying to kill me or rip a limb off my body. I really try and avoid the white belts unless they are giants or have something that I can use to improve. Anyway, every one has done rounds with this guy. So it’s my turn.

I wasn’t really thinking as I was in training mode. I arm dragged the guy hard. I either RNC’d or arm barred him three or four time in a row. After I did that I realized what I was doing and slowed down. I stopped and let him work in my guard. I kind of toyed with him but didn’t submit him anymore. I could tell he was annoyed but I gave him some pointers and sent him on his way.

The next guy he went with is a great guy. He is a guy, though, that does not give any quarter. He is an old school, tough as nails, brown belt that has been training various martial arts since the early 90s. He is a black belt in whatever you name - judo, kempo, Kung fu, and boxed heavily in the early 00s. He is also in federal law enforcement. You know the type. The mid-40s guy that has a grip from hell and his hands are so calloused that his palms scratch you when he grips you.

An example of my experience training with said brown belt: he catches me in a heel hook, in the gi, and I tap.

I say, “come on we are in the gi, I didn’t know we were involving heel hooks.”

He just looks at me as serious as he can, shrugs and says, “you tapped.” Then gives me a smart ass shit eating grin. We both start laughing. We joke around like that all the time.

White belt went against this hardcore dude. After that roll the white belt guy stood up, grabbed his stuff and left. The head instructor walk’s after him and had a talk with him.

During end of class announcements the instructor made an announcement about trying to teach the white belts, blah blah blah.

After class, the instructor comes up to the brown belt and me and asks “what did you guys do to whitebelt guy?”

We looked at each other and both stated we were just training.
The instructor says, “he named both of you guys and said you were being overly aggressive.”

We looked at each other and laughed. The instructor laughed too and said white belt guy was a pussy but we can’t be running off paying customers and to take it easy on some of the weaker white belts. We should be encouraging and teaching them. We laughed even more at that comment. We agreed to take easy on the new guys.

That happened like 3 years ago. The instructor still talks about it today how we scare away the clientele because we are dicks. We laugh because we find it funny and we laugh because it’s true.

What do you guys think? Should that be the way it is? I take it easy on the white belts since then. I don’t know what the brown belt does because he is always hard on me.

I've seen Nick Gill (two times Olympic medalist in judo at under 100kg and currently Canadian national judo coach) thrown around by 10 year old yellow belts who weighed about 60 pounds. However, he made sure they earned their throws, and showed them what they did right and what they did wrong. Nick's goal is pretty clear: to encourage kids and adults to stay in judo.

Its the model I try to follow when training with beginners in judo (though obviously I am nowhere as good or as knowledgeable as Nick). Ideally I aim for a level just above where they are - I give them things they earned, but they have to earn it. Every once in awhile you get someone who develops attitude (ie they don't understand I'm coaching), and then I throw them a few times (without hurting them) to bring their attention back to the fact that I'm in coaching mode, not competing mode.

It tends to work very well with beginners. Things that would be patronizing (and annoying) for higher belts is almost always appreciated by beginners. And they tend to return.
 
I go easy on white belts, but if a big strong white belt tries to hurt me I will put them down and punish them. I am 35 fucking years old, and I will have no mercy on a big strong 22 year old with an ego problem. So, it depends on how they roll with me. If they show me no mercy and it feels like a "fight", then I will punish them.

If they're giving it to you you're more than welcome to return the favour
 
When Hulk Hogan decided he wanted to become a wrestler he trained with the legendary Hiro Matsuda. On his first day a stable of veterans did one of those aforementioned tests by "exercising him until he was going to faint," and then they took it up a notch and broke his leg. When he returned months later (without the police) they realized how dedicated he was. A year later he was already on the pro circuit.

What if he never came back?

Not everyone gets into jiu jitsu to be world champion. Some guys just jump in as a form of exercise and a form of self defence. Don't get me wrong, you need to keep it real with some people. Make sure they know they're only getting half the story, but ease them into it. "Look this will help you, but we're only drilling it and getting the movements, they're minimal resistance provided"

Sometimes having a little knowledge is worse than having no knowledge at all.
 
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