Saturated doesn't cause heart disease!

[AristotleAmadopolis]

So are we still rubbing food on paper to see if turns clear or is that an outdated process all of a sudden?

 

[flashNsmash]

So are we still rubbing food on paper to see if turns clear or is that an outdated process all of a sudden?

 

[Bos Docken]

Looks like meat's back on the menu boys!

Lol 20 years since I first heard that line in the Two Towers movie and it never fails to make me wonder.

Why does an Uruk-Hai even know what a menu is?

are there Orc restaurants? Orc dining establishments? do Orcs own businesses? is there Orc cuisine?

Is there such thing as Orc culture? Orc civil society?

 

[Belaya Smert]

Butter and heavy creme especially in pasta dishes for life.

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

Looks like meat's back on the menu boys!

Very good reference.

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

This review article was recently published, and follows the 2019 Annals of Internal medicine meta-analysis which suggested low to no evidence of red meat contributing to cancer or heart disease.

The truth is there was never any credible scientific evidence linking saturated fat (commonly found in animal foods) with heart disease.

Seventy years of nutritional gaslighting started with Ancel Keys and the fiction that cholesterol was inherently harmful, and corollary that we must replace ancestrally appropriate animal-derived fats with industrially refined seed oils. Absurd. @saifedean

For a highly comprehensive explainer on decade long debacle, read this article series by @ProfTimNoakes excellent article series to learn more

In fact there is probably no one man on earth who has done more damage to public health (while intending the opposite) than Ancel Keys.

As I write in my piece The Corruption of the Human Diet, the saturated fat/cholesterol heart disease narrative has been sustained for far way past its used by date. How?

By a an unholy partnership between the Industrial Food Complex hocking toxic seed oils and Big Pharma hocking statin medications. Both industries rely on demonizing dietary saturated fat and cholesterol, and by extension the low-density lipoprotein (LDL).

It is a profitable business to tell people they should eat industrial waste (cottonseed oil, etc.) then prescribe medications to offset the harm done to cardiometabolic health through a lifetime consumption of these products.

Before someone bandies epidemiological data 'proving' the benefits of polyunsaturated oil consumption, consider the empirical reality of us clinicians who treat patients and see objective markers of metabolic health (and subjective health) improve with removal of these oils.

This thread is simply another round about reminder to rid yourself of any vestigial guilt for eating egg yolk or the fat on your steak.

Rid your life of seed oils, embrace animal fats and thrive on having a micronutrient surplus of fat-soluble vitamins and cholesterol.

I'll leave you with the conclusion of this most recent study.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1569938919248269313.html

Not a surprise, eating no/little processed foods is the ticket to good health moreso than any specific dietary restriction. Although it doesn't hurt to have your servings of organic fruit and veggies.

People from Europe who move to the US for extended periods of time immediately gain like 10-20 lbs, and lose it when they go back to Europe. We load our foods with all sorts of chemicals, synthetic and processed, and our produce is contaminated with pesticides. No wonder our health sucks! And this isn't even counting all the other exposures to synthetic chemicals in our daily lives, be it from products we purchase or the water we drink.

 

[shunyata]

There's no doubt that high serum(blood) cholesterol has a causal link to increased mortality especially from cardiovascular death. The debate is all around how dietary cholesterol doesn't necessarily lead to a sustained increase in serum cholesterol, which it doesn't. Nothing wrong with most types of fats in general.

Still, there's many variables. I think as far as it goes, it seems that over consuming fats may lead to increases in serum cholesterol, however that is almost exclusively related to trans fats and/or in combination with sugar. This is attenuated to some extent by greens, exercise and otherwise healthy lifestyle choices.

Summation:
Trans fats are pretty bad, refined sugar is pretty bad, trans fat + refined sugar in high amounts is pretty terrible. Otherwise fats generally good (unsaturated healthy), greens very healthy, meats generally healthy albeit large amounts of red meat specifically may increase risk for some cancers and cardiovascular diseases.

High five for evidence based conclusions!

My favorite new development is people screeching about the terrors of "seed oils" then in the next paragraph they'll recommend cooking with olive oil and grapeseed oil.

Where do they think the oil comes from on the olive plant? They're not tapping the trunks for syrup like a maple tree.

If you want to argue that Canadian rapeseed should not be used as a food additive or cooking oil, fine. Just say it flat out.

Fucking seed oils.



The biggest public health dietary problem by far in the US is carbohydrate balance. Way too much sugar, nowhere near enough fiber and fresh produce in the diet.

You can have steak all you want, but serve it with large portions of vegetables and leafy greens.

 

[ssBaldy]

Yeah I’ve seen that study, but even if it’s right there is more to the story. It’s possible scientists in the past mistook correlation with causation. Most red meat is pretty calorie dense, so a diet heavy in it is likely to lead to obesity which is probably the real cause

You get obese from sugars way faster, though

 

[Sano]

High five for evidence based conclusions!

My favorite new development is people screeching about the terrors of "seed oils" then in the next paragraph they'll recommend cooking with olive oil and grapeseed oil.

Where do they think the oil comes from on the olive plant? They're not tapping the trunks for syrup like a maple tree.

If you want to argue that Canadian rapeseed should not be used as a food additive or cooking oil, fine. Just say it flat out.

Fucking seed oils.



The biggest public health dietary problem by far in the US is carbohydrate balance. Way too much sugar, nowhere near enough fiber and fresh produce in the diet.

You can have steak all you want, but serve it with large portions of vegetables and leafy greens.

It's par for the course how people focus in on something, like seed oils, without looking at the context. Very silly.

Yeah, there's some pretty compelling evidence showing that having greens with red meats reduces the potential carcinogen effect. As you said, if you introduce greens/veggies, fruit and fiber into your diet as a main component then you're on the right track, regardless of meat consumption. I'd like to try to cut out meat for a little while with animal wellfare in mind, but the taste if so good and it's such a solid protein source. I try to stick to turkey/chicken, liver/heart and sea food as the healthiest options, but damn if I don't like a nice fat steak, some bacon and a sausage on the grill.

 

[shunyata]

It's par for the course how people focus in on something, like seed oils, without looking at the context. Very silly.

Yeah, there's some pretty compelling evidence showing that having greens with red meats reduces the potential carcinogen effect. As you said, if you introduce greens/veggies, fruit and fiber into your diet as a main component then you're on the right track, regardless of meat consumption. I'd like to try to cut out meat for a little while with animal wellfare in mind, but the taste if so good and it's such a solid protein source. I try to stick to turkey/chicken, liver/heart and sea food as the healthiest options, but damn if I don't like a nice fat steak, some bacon and a sausage on the grill.

Context is huge and is so often ignored or grossly misinterpreted.

One of the new things I'm seeing with people failing to grasp context is the lectin scare.

For decades we have a ton of empirical data that people who eat more legumes tend to have better cardiovascular health and overall longevity when ruling out other factors. Lentils and beans in both vegan and omnivorous diets both appear to have substantial benefits on a broad public health level and the data supporting that has been strong for decades.

But you've got a few people gaining steam on the internet who are promoting the idea that some people with long histories of autoimmune digestive inflammation should avoid legumes and seeds because lectin compounds within them may be inflammatory triggers for those autoimmune patients. In some of these patients, we may see improvements if they were in fact sensitive to those things.

But then you have people pushing health books or claiming to be health experts saying that EVERYONE should be abstaining from legumes even if they lack these histories of autoimmune reactivity to them.

And the end result is that I keep running into vegans who are starving themselves following these "health experts" because they won't eat legumes and they won't eat meat so their protein content is just woefully inadequate.

 

[boingyman]

This review article was recently published, and follows the 2019 Annals of Internal medicine meta-analysis which suggested low to no evidence of red meat contributing to cancer or heart disease.

The truth is there was never any credible scientific evidence linking saturated fat (commonly found in animal foods) with heart disease.

Seventy years of nutritional gaslighting started with Ancel Keys and the fiction that cholesterol was inherently harmful, and corollary that we must replace ancestrally appropriate animal-derived fats with industrially refined seed oils. Absurd. @saifedean

For a highly comprehensive explainer on decade long debacle, read this article series by @ProfTimNoakes excellent article series to learn more

In fact there is probably no one man on earth who has done more damage to public health (while intending the opposite) than Ancel Keys.

As I write in my piece The Corruption of the Human Diet, the saturated fat/cholesterol heart disease narrative has been sustained for far way past its used by date. How?

By a an unholy partnership between the Industrial Food Complex hocking toxic seed oils and Big Pharma hocking statin medications. Both industries rely on demonizing dietary saturated fat and cholesterol, and by extension the low-density lipoprotein (LDL).

It is a profitable business to tell people they should eat industrial waste (cottonseed oil, etc.) then prescribe medications to offset the harm done to cardiometabolic health through a lifetime consumption of these products.

Before someone bandies epidemiological data 'proving' the benefits of polyunsaturated oil consumption, consider the empirical reality of us clinicians who treat patients and see objective markers of metabolic health (and subjective health) improve with removal of these oils.

This thread is simply another round about reminder to rid yourself of any vestigial guilt for eating egg yolk or the fat on your steak.

Rid your life of seed oils, embrace animal fats and thrive on having a micronutrient surplus of fat-soluble vitamins and cholesterol.

I'll leave you with the conclusion of this most recent study.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1569938919248269313.html

 

[Phlog]

This is the way.

 

[Sano]

Context is huge and is so often ignored or grossly misinterpreted.

One of the new things I'm seeing with people failing to grasp context is the lectin scare.

For decades we have a ton of empirical data that people who eat more legumes tend to have better cardiovascular health and overall longevity when ruling out other factors. Lentils and beans in both vegan and omnivorous diets both appear to have substantial benefits on a broad public health level and the data supporting that has been strong for decades.

But you've got a few people gaining steam on the internet who are promoting the idea that some people with long histories of autoimmune digestive inflammation should avoid legumes and seeds because lectin compounds within them may be inflammatory triggers for those autoimmune patients. In some of these patients, we may see improvements if they were in fact sensitive to those things.

But then you have people pushing health books or claiming to be health experts saying that EVERYONE should be abstaining from legumes even if they lack these histories of autoimmune reactivity to them.

And the end result is that I keep running into vegans who are starving themselves following these "health experts" because they won't eat legumes and they won't eat meat so their protein content is just woefully inadequate.

Bingo, very well put.

 

[AristotleAmadopolis]

It's par for the course how people focus in on something, like seed oils, without looking at the context. Very silly.

Yeah, there's some pretty compelling evidence showing that having greens with red meats reduces the potential carcinogen effect. As you said, if you introduce greens/veggies, fruit and fiber into your diet as a main component then you're on the right track, regardless of meat consumption. I'd like to try to cut out meat for a little while with animal wellfare in mind, but the taste if so good and it's such a solid protein source. I try to stick to turkey/chicken, liver/heart and sea food as the healthiest options, but damn if I don't like a nice fat steak, some bacon and a sausage on the grill.

even taking a break from meat one or two days a week is a good idea.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

First it was decided eggs arent bad for you, now my red meat heavy diet is vindicated too

 

[crabmeat]

Moderation and moving around. It's pretty simple.

 

[Two Crows]

Lol 20 years since I first heard that line in the Two Towers movie and it never fails to make me wonder.

Why does an Uruk-Hai even know what a menu is?

are there Orc restaurants? Orc dining establishments? do Orcs own businesses? is there Orc cuisine?

Is there such thing as Orc culture? Orc civil society?

 

[Two Crows]

This review article was recently published, and follows the 2019 Annals of Internal medicine meta-analysis which suggested low to no evidence of red meat contributing to cancer or heart disease.

The truth is there was never any credible scientific evidence linking saturated fat (commonly found in animal foods) with heart disease.

Seventy years of nutritional gaslighting started with Ancel Keys and the fiction that cholesterol was inherently harmful, and corollary that we must replace ancestrally appropriate animal-derived fats with industrially refined seed oils. Absurd. @saifedean

For a highly comprehensive explainer on decade long debacle, read this article series by @ProfTimNoakes excellent article series to learn more

In fact there is probably no one man on earth who has done more damage to public health (while intending the opposite) than Ancel Keys.

As I write in my piece The Corruption of the Human Diet, the saturated fat/cholesterol heart disease narrative has been sustained for far way past its used by date. How?

By a an unholy partnership between the Industrial Food Complex hocking toxic seed oils and Big Pharma hocking statin medications. Both industries rely on demonizing dietary saturated fat and cholesterol, and by extension the low-density lipoprotein (LDL).

It is a profitable business to tell people they should eat industrial waste (cottonseed oil, etc.) then prescribe medications to offset the harm done to cardiometabolic health through a lifetime consumption of these products.

Before someone bandies epidemiological data 'proving' the benefits of polyunsaturated oil consumption, consider the empirical reality of us clinicians who treat patients and see objective markers of metabolic health (and subjective health) improve with removal of these oils.

This thread is simply another round about reminder to rid yourself of any vestigial guilt for eating egg yolk or the fat on your steak.

Rid your life of seed oils, embrace animal fats and thrive on having a micronutrient surplus of fat-soluble vitamins and cholesterol.

I'll leave you with the conclusion of this most recent study.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1569938919248269313.html

Was this study paid for by a grant from the US Cattleman's Association, by chance?

 

[therealdope]

It's hilarious how many sherbros get their medical science education from Joe Rogan.

Per the European Association of Liver Disease ( a meeting that I'm currently at), in a review of 220 red meat consumption papers only one study didn't find an increase risk of CVD, cancer, and metabolic disease., and that was a fishing village in Japan that consumed 3oz of red meat a day. Just 3.

You want to reduce the health consequences and all cause mortality from CVD, cancer, neuro degenerative and metabolic diseases? 1. reduce calories 2. Moderate red meat consumption (probably a lot lower than most people imagine 'moderate' to be 3. decrease saturated fat.

inb4: grass fed beef, gainz, auto-immune disease.

 

[AristotleAmadopolis]

Very good reference.

Shit. What is it? Sounds very familiar.