Social SAT To add ‘Adversity Score’ to Capture Social and Economic Background

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Headkicktoleg, May 16, 2019.

  1. Lawless People

    Lawless People Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    And there goes any objective standard. Might as well fart on this snare drum.

    It is a test colleges use to get an idea of what college a student is fit for. It is not a test of general fucking intelligence. That is something like an IQ test. You really think colleges give a fuck about IQ?
     
  2. superpunch

    superpunch Silver Belt

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    I'm not the guy you quoted, I just want to reply. I get what you're saying. I just think that it's a bunch of mumbo jumbo to rationalize racism. It's the same stuff we've been hearing for years, yet it's magically Asians and white people that always seem to get the shit end of the diversity stick.

    It's like banning white t-shirts and air jordans in your store and saying that you're not discriminating against black people; you're only setting policy on shirts and shoes, not race! It's not racist against Asians, it's just a personality test!

    Socioeconomic tests, personality tests, whatever.. it's all just ways to racially discriminate with plausible deniability like an anti-black dress code.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  3. Richmma80

    Richmma80 Blue Belt

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    Should just replace SAT with an IQ test, which is the best at weeding out people with sub 100 IQ.
     
  4. Mr Fahrenheit

    Mr Fahrenheit Blue Belt

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    Schools need to know if someone applying can do math, not whether they have a good excuse for not being able to do math.

    This is not a good idea. The SAT does what it does and other tools do what they do. If a school wants to admit students who overcame adversity, that’s their prerogative, but don’t make a mess of the achievement test.

    A don’t want to get left wing vs right wing about this, but this idea is very much in line with a theme that undergirds many left wing policies—and that is that the purpose of business is simply to decide how the pie will be distributed, rather than to make that pie as large as we can. Many on the left see important jobs as mere positions of power privilege. In other words, the person who benefits from Jeff Bezos founding Amazon is just Jeff Bezos, not the millions of people who have chosen to become customers or employees. Amazon isn’t a resource that makes many lives a little bit better every day, it’s merely a tool that allowed Jeff to get fabulously wealthy.

    This SAT policy makes perfect sense if that’s how you see the world. A spot at MIT or Stanford is not a training ground for the engineers, scientists, business leaders, lawyers and doctors who will help drive our society’s prosperity for the next fifty years, it’s just a power and privilege club. Engineers aren’t the people who will make sure our airplanes don’t explode and our bridges don’t collapse—they’re just the people who get to drive a Mercedes Benz and own a nice house.

    That’s all the private sector is to these folks, so it’s naturally all the university system is too.
     
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  5. Mr Fahrenheit

    Mr Fahrenheit Blue Belt

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    No, that’s not what it does. It “helps” a relatively small number of people in a very narrow way. But it hurts everyone, because it weakens the talent pool society will use to fill its most important jobs.

    How does it help “black people” if a few thousand less qualified indivials get important jobs or college slots? It helps only those few thousand people—and it only helps them if being pushed into a role for which they aren’t well equipped for doesn’t mess them up (and it does mess a lot of people up, understandably so).

    Opposition to this idea (and to the general trend of which this idea is a small part) should not be based on racial rivalry. It’s not a bad idea “for Asians.” It’s not a bad idea “for whites.” It’s just a bad idea. We aren’t trading a little Asian prosperity for a little black prosperity. We are jeopardizing everyone’s prosperity.
     
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  6. ocfightfan

    ocfightfan Gold Belt

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    Marxian bullshit. Even if we accept that poverty causes "negative effects on brain structure and development" what makes you think this adversity score will make up for that? Social justice extra credit is going to magically confer ability that never developed because a kid was poor? Please stop.

    This is pure virtue signalling by the lefties who control academia. They want to fix the unfairness of life by redistributing success from those who have earned it to those who did not.
     
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  7. lifelessheap

    lifelessheap Silver Belt

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    The problem is that advantaged kids will still get extra diversity points. Obama's daughter's are rich and have access to all the most powerful people in the world. But they still get extra SAT points for being black with a transgender mom and a Muslim father. Not fair.
     
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  8. gspieler

    gspieler Silver Belt

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    Adversity Scores: for when already having quotas based predominantly on race just isn't enough.
     
  9. milkmandanl

    milkmandanl Green Belt

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    Correct those of us that went to school in the 70’s were affected by de-segregation....I for one was bussed to a public “black” middle and high school.
     
  10. F1980

    F1980 Orange Belt

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    They've been doing this shit for a long time. I want the best doctors to work on me and my loved ones, not some diversity hire who barely passed the exams, but got the job because his skin is darker.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. BillytheFish

    BillytheFish Brown Belt

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    Excellent post
     
  12. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I suppose but when give the two choices (a store banning black people vs. a store banning a specific type of clothing), I'd choose the later, especially if it's going to remain consistent because that would eventually lead to it benefiting different races at in different eras, not because we are trying to benefit one race over another but we are trying to enable an INDIVIDUAL regardless of their race based on criteria that I believe we could all agree lead to hardship for a teenager trying to get into college. It's a step in the right direction. I can understand suspicions but to be immediately against this and just stay with what we have doesn't solve the problem either.
     
  13. superpunch

    superpunch Silver Belt

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    I think the solution is to raise desirable minorities' SAT scores. Not give them handicap points.

    Let's not mistake this: this is saying "aww you're so poor and weak and black, awww... here's some free points!"

    If I were black or poor or whatever race or class, I would find that humiliating. Treat me like an equal! Treat me like a goddamn man! Where is the pride? Where is the humility and the self-respect in this?
     
  14. Swing

    Swing Brown Belt

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    My guess is the reason for making it a separate score is that it allows individual institutions to decide whether or not to use it. If, like many of the posters in this thread, a university doesn't find value in an adversity score then that university can just ignore it and evaluate each applicant as they have been.
     
  15. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    So...that's a no on academic meritocracy from you.

    Although I suspect you don't see the irony of saying "those who earned it" when we're talking about the unearned advantage of being born to a wealthier family than your competitor.

    Or maybe you're going to explain how someone "earns" parents who can afford better schools and to pay for out of school academic support, lol?
     
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  16. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    You're arguing a losing point there. I was thinking about this last night. These are not people concerned about actually improving admissions. They are concerned about preventing black kids from getting something they think the black kids haven't earned.

    The core issue goes like this: Should we help poor kids? Yes. Poor Asian kids? Yes. Poor white kids? Yes. Poor black kids? No, poor black kids are undeserving.

    You're never going to convince them about anything because their concern is not about the proposal, their concern is about the black kids. They want "race neutral" policies only if those race neutral policies will reinforce their opinion that the black kids shouldn't be there in the first place.
     
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  17. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    You still aren’t getting this. If you are white, Asian, black, etc and meet any of these criteria, it helps your score. And no, the entire reason this is better is a purely race related one assume everyone in a race is either doing well or bad which isn’t a good idea.
     
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  18. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    What’s concerning is they won’t admit this helps poor white or Asian students, not matter how much it’s presented, they just say it’s somehow only raising just black student scores. They are failing to distinguish that the score itself and admissions aren’t the same thing. This thread has been pretty disappointing as a whole because half the discussion isn’t even about the score. It’s just about complaining about race focused criteria even though the score isn’t that and their the ones obsessing over which race supposedly wins out or doesn’t. This is a step away from identity politics and they are still trying to drag it into the mud and make it that.
     
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  19. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    And also, I thought the key discussion here would’ve been whether you should curve a score to help disadvantaged students, which imo is a perfectly fine one to have but we aren’t even there how many pages in. It’s pretty crazy how off the subject is from the discussion.
     
  20. ocfightfan

    ocfightfan Gold Belt

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    Players in the NBA all had better basketball genetics and early training opportunities than I did, and authority figures who pushed them to be successful. Does that mean I should be given some special credit for a shot at the NBA? Does that mean we ignore all the hard work that they did to reach the pinnacle of basketball?

    Unless we are talking about things like the recent scandal where people were bribing officials to get their kids into and through top schools then your point is invalid. There are kids who worked their asses off to get into top schools who will miss out because they don't come from the right demographic according to the acolytes of political correctness. Their slots will go to kids who are less well qualified, but get extra points for social justice reasons.
     
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