Sandbagging and Jiu Jitsu

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oceanflame7

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There seems to be a lot of Sandbagging going on in Submission competitions.
(guys competing at blue belt, when they really are tapping brown belts in sparring).

What is the solution to combat this ???????
(as sandbagging is a form of cheating)

My solution for this problem

Once you win your division,
you should be forced into the next division up.
This of course does not include default Golds.

For instance, if you win the Gold at Beginner/ white, division,
you should be forced into the intermediate/ blue, division, next time.

What is the solution you have come up with to counter this problem ???????

:) :) :)
 
They've been doing that at 2nd tier grappling comps for years.

It doesn't matter. Best solution is to get rid of belt levels/ecperience levels and just have everyone compete together. That's if sandbagging bothers you that much.
 
Sandbagging is everywhere. Everyone does it though so it's common place. You see a guy win purple belt worlds you can bet that he would more then hold his own at brown belt. Marcio Andre did cola podio a few weeks back and fought really well against some very very good black belts, it was obvious that he was black belt level and has been for a while. To stop it I would maybe recommend a class system as in A level competitors B level and so forth. Separate the belt rank from the competitive rank so it doesn't mess with the casual jiu jitsu artist who don't train to win worlds but still want to compete and be competitive against people like them.
 
Agree with batBoyJG . Sounds the perfect plan. Sandbagging is everywhere though. Hell my first kickboxing comp I got slaughtered by a guy head kicking and axe kicking me ( stuff that I could never do at that point ). It was meant to be beginners and this guy was way above everyone elses skill level. Someone who knew him told us afterwards hes been training a number of years, he just doesn't grade lol
That's just how things are unfortunately.
 
Some coaches even sandbag their own students so they can win their divisions. It's sad but it happens all the time.
 
Just happened to my teammate at the world at blue. Guy who won MW has been training for 7 years, been blue for 5, and won the worlds at blue in 2010. Ridiculous.
 
There is only ONE solution: pre bout lie detector test.

A: are you a legit white belt?

B: yes.

A: says you failed. Rickson, we have your first opponent.
 
jag6984 said:
Just happened to my teammate at the world at blue. Guy who won MW has been training for 7 years, been blue for 5, and won the worlds at blue in 2010. Ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Wow didn't even see that I thought that one that I saw of a Purple Belt who had been there for 4 years was bad. That one is egregious. He had Margid Hage in the division that he won, and Hage is now a black belt! If you look at all the other juvenile champs from that year, most of them are brown belts, or purples about to be promoted.
 
If you win Gold in your division (not a default Gold)
you should be forced to go up a division,
anyone who does not, is sandbagging (cheating)

#Simple
 
jag6984 said:
Just happened to my teammate at the world at blue. Guy who won MW has been training for 7 years, been blue for 5, and won the worlds at blue in 2010. Ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Lol that is crazy.

The problem is that the belt based competition system incentivize sandbagging. You won't stop it because those who sandbag are rewarded and never punished so how could you tell people not to do it?
 
It is the golden goose problem.

When a guy wins gold for you, he has proven ability to produce gold at that level. Chances are he will only get better at that level in time, not worse. He is a golden goose.

If you promote him, his chances to produce gold usually go way down. This is especially true from brown to black. Promotion is killing the golden goose.

It's not rare at all to see instructors promote their guys in the division who lost while keeping their winner of the division at the same rank. The winner is a golden goose so he can't be promoted.

The other guys can get promoted because there is no fable that says don't kill the goose that lays bronze eggs for you occasionally if they get lucky with the bracketing. Those geese just get promoted normally.
 
The problem with instant promotion from winning a comp is that you will get guys who will feed off low level comps and power level to black belt. I know a gym that promotes people automatically once they win 3 golds in a division regardless of how. Some guys get promoted very early just based on luck (having a two man division for example).
 
I agree that someone like Edwin should have been promoted years ago. Same goes for Keenan and the Meows.
 
Calibur said:
They've been doing that at 2nd tier grappling comps for years.

It doesn't matter. Best solution is to get rid of belt levels/ecperience levels and just have everyone compete together. That's if sandbagging bothers you that much.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone pay money just to get smashed in 10 seconds? This would be the reality for most whites and a lot of blues if they were to be lumped together with purples, browns and blacks. All you'd see from this is tournament participation decline by 90%.
 
Einarr said:
Why would anyone pay money just to get smashed in 10 seconds? This would be the reality for most whites and a lot of blues if they were to be lumped together with purples, browns and blacks. All you'd see from this is tournament participation decline by 90%.
Click to expand...

You just do it the same way as Judo.

The small comps count for less ranking points, or they don't count at all, so the better guys just ignore them. Big championships count for much more, so the better guys show up and the lower guys ignore them.

There would still be plenty of tournament opportunities for lower level guys. You would see a marked decline in participation at the international tournament level, which is something even the IBJJF seems to be moving towards with the qualification requirements for black belt in place next year.

I mean at some point, it just doesn't make sense that random guys can enter a premiere international tournament without qualifying somehow. That's what local tournaments are for. You have to win those first before you can move to up to regional, national, and international.
 
Calibur said:
They've been doing that at 2nd tier grappling comps for years.

It doesn't matter. Best solution is to get rid of belt levels/ecperience levels and just have everyone compete together. That's if sandbagging bothers you that much.
Click to expand...

Then you will not see 3000+ compettitors at Pan Am or Worlds. Instead, You will see BJJ guys who have been training for 10+ years. It's basically a blackbelt division
 
Einarr said:
Why would anyone pay money just to get smashed in 10 seconds? This would be the reality for most whites and a lot of blues if they were to be lumped together with purples, browns and blacks. All you'd see from this is tournament participation decline by 90%.
Click to expand...
Tier/class system is the way to go. Make it so someone can be ranked as a blue belt but if there competition level exceeds the belt ranking that their instructor have them then they have to compete higher. Say like Keenan when he was a purple, he was obviously far above all other purple belts and most other brown belts at that time. If you want to grade him as a purple belt that's fine but he is a elite A level competitor so he should compete vs others.
 
Tournaments (and the belt system) should just represent beginner, intermediate, and advanced. Guys winning the worlds at purple and even blue are easily hanging with black belts and beating recreational black belts more often than not.
 
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