I know this thread has been done to death before, but I am kind of just wondering about the Pan Ams and Worlds competitors (which probably has been done to death before too). Just want to know what you think of people who have been an upper belt competing in the Pan Ams and Worlds for their third time at that belt level and usually placing/winning. I think that it should be monitored so it is fair to other people at that level. There are purple belts who have been that belt for three years at least that are still competing and winning every tournament they enter.
Sandbaggers (old discussion but please read)
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You're saying there are guys competing at purple at the Pan Ams and Worlds, who have already medaled at that belt in multiple previous years, and are competing the same division?
In my opinion, for the top competitors, you really only get one or two shots at the major tourneys per belt level. It depends on when you were promoted, and how you did. If we're talking about a top competitor who is training pretty much full time, and has medaled in a Pan Am or World tourney, I'd say a third time around at the same belt is overdoing it, unless there are special circumstances.
That said, these things are far from guaranteed wins.
In my opinion, for the top competitors, you really only get one or two shots at the major tourneys per belt level. It depends on when you were promoted, and how you did. If we're talking about a top competitor who is training pretty much full time, and has medaled in a Pan Am or World tourney, I'd say a third time around at the same belt is overdoing it, unless there are special circumstances.
That said, these things are far from guaranteed wins.
That.
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At the higher belt levels it would bother me less than if it was happening at white or blue belt. If you go to a top flight comp and win at that level theres little reasoning behind you still be Ranked there the following year.
You can also argue that the guys who are losing were promoted too soon. Purple belt is probably the belt you spend the most time at but if you haven't been promoted than you are still considered to be at that level and it is the responsibility of the newly promoted competitors to prepare for these situations.
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Its not like the tournaments are seeded or anything, its almost luck of the draw whether or not you place.
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hu? at white and probably blue you may get away with crazy strength, purple and above... not so much...
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I don't think it's completely luck, but that definitely factors in. I've placed in divisions that I wouldn't have if I met up with certain people earlier in the division and I've been in divisions that I could have placed in or won if I had a different line up. Sometimes a guys style doesn't line up well with someone else's, regardless of overall skill, and sometimes you are just outclassed or the outclasser
I agree with you. There are times I have seen where the two best people in the whole bracket are fighting each other in the first fight. That gets rid of one of the best people right there. One time this happened at the Worlds and there were lots of good people in the division but the way it ended up the winners were just lucky that they got placed where they did and didn't have to fight any of the people everyone thought would win because they got out earlier due to who they were put against or were dq'd.
But, I really don't think it is fair for someone who wins at every tournament to be able to compete at that same belt level for more years than they should when everyone else they were up against at that level (some of them not even as good) have been promoted about a year ago. No one has a chance against that person because no one else has been that same belt for as long as he has. It is kind of hard to describe and I don't want to name names and start a big thing here, so hopefully you understand what I am saying without names.
It is a hard one.
What if this brown belt placed second at the Mundials and his team decides that he stays at Brown for another attempt next year?
Is it sand bagging because they have a higher standard?
Since that team already have good rep at black belt level/weight category, he can easily stay at brown.
What if this brown belt placed second at the Mundials and his team decides that he stays at Brown for another attempt next year?
Is it sand bagging because they have a higher standard?
Since that team already have good rep at black belt level/weight category, he can easily stay at brown.
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If your standard is that 2nd place in the world isn't good enough and you have to be 1st, in order to reach the next belt, that's not high standards, that's ridiculous.
Not my standards.
well, I am not gonna name the team.
but it does happen out there.
I am just playing the devil advocate.
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I mean I'm not saying you should only be allowed to be a brown belt for 1 year. But if you placed in the Mundials shortly after getting your brown belt, my guess is you'd be on the fast track for your black belt. I guess I can see it happening now that I think about it.
It might be lame for you.
But for those guys that are planning to make a living of JJ, it is not lame.
It is their future.
Like Roger Gracie said in an interview, the hobbyists have no longer much chance to win any big title in BJJ. The competition has become really more...professiona.
The hight standard of the Mundial has it repercussion to the local competitions as well.
Even at the local competition level, it becomes harder as well due to people preparing for the World cup.
I remember telling a guy on F12 that he should move up to brown after winning 5-7 local competitions during the year (the guy competed every weekend).
He got pissed off and told me off because he was just not at the level yet and would get killed at the Mundial (even at purple).
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Certainly it would be rare and thats why we do this sport, well why I do it. But I think a guy like Brock Lesnar (gifted athlete with a wealth of wrestling experience) could win some BJJ comps with little actual BJJ knowledge. How far up belt wise he would be competitive I don't know but I could see him getting some medals.
Yep.
But it starts at winning at purple.
If you did not win it a purple, what are your changes once you reach at BB?
Actually it would be interesting to see what are the statistics on that?
Felipe Costa comes to mind:
"Felipe’s success in recent years came as a surprise to most in the BJJ community as no other competitor had ever won a World Championship in the black belt division, without having ever placed on a podium of a major competition prior to receiving his black belt. Felipe had competed before in the lower belt divisions, but had never won a major tournament (Mundials, Pan Ams, Europeans, etc)"
Felipe Costa | BJJ Heroes
Edit: it is a bad example because they are talking about placing and we were talking about winning.
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