Ryan Hall no gi Ezekiel/side choke appreciation thread.

[Shemhazai]

Holy fawk, this choke is awesome. Anybody else had a chance to try it out?



(@ 4:50)

Basically, for those of you who do not own Ryan's arm triangle set, it is a side choke from back control, like the sleeve Ezekiel, but in terms of finishing mechanics and pressure, it is really identical to a properly executed (no gi) brabo choke, with the elbow on the back of the opponent's head breaking his posture and the shoulder coming out and dropping on the opponent's shoulder for the make-you-see-stars-right-away

 

[Drew Foster]

I saw it done by people like Braulio, Rafa, and Keenan, and figured it was super low %age or that maybe their arms were just so long it was easy for them. I have long arms too, I guess though. Plus I always love the RNC so much, a top 3 favorite for sure.

I haven't had the time to really put this in yet. I have drilled it a bit though, and as long as your shoulder is behind theirs (like with all the arm-in chokes) I was really surprised how quickly I got taps from it. It's also so dangerous because no one expects a choke from the bottom arm of the seatbelt. They're just watching (in no-gi at least) for the RNC on the over side and the Kimura grip armbar from the under side. This is a great option, I just need to explore it further.

I really like the skills that come from developing hand fighting for the RNC and trapping the arms, but I'll make it a point to drill this and use it live, because I really like all of your advise in general! Thanks!

 

[Shemhazai]

I knew I could count on you in a thread about no gi chokes, Mr. Foster!

As for arm length, mine are pretty average in length for my height (5'11"), and I can lock it up with a bit of a struggle on guys in my own weightclass (I'm 205-210), but like with the brabo, I really have to break their posture pretty thoroughly with the elbow in the back of the head before it's fully locked. On the plus side, their head just about explodes when I finally apply the pressure.

 

[Drew Foster]

Oh yea a couple times I got it was working the arm triangle/side choke and they manage to fight to a side and then I just grabbed the bicep and chair sat to the back for the finish. That seemed to work better for me than fighting for it on their back with the hooks, etc. But I will try it the way you suggest.

 

[Shemhazai]

Oh yea a couple times I got it was working the arm triangle/side choke and they manage to fight to a side and then I just grabbed the bicep and chair sat to the back for the finish. That seemed to work better for me than fighting for it on their back with the hooks, etc. But I will try it the way you suggest.

Oh, I didn't mean I set it up while I'm on the back with both hooks in. I mean I let him out of the bottom hook and do the chair sit reset, setting up the choke before I sit back. (Like Ryan shows in the instructional.) If I miss, I'll just be on the underhook side, which is my preferred side anyway because I like the arm trap series.

 

[BJJArsenal]

It's my go to move if anyone turns in or turns out while I'm in side control. If they turn in do the Cobrinha style spin to the back and go for it and if they turn away attack your chest to their back and hit it. Love it, a lot.

 

[Shemhazai]

It's my go to move if anyone turns in or turns out while I'm in side control. If they turn in do the Cobrinha style spin to the back and go for it and if they turn away attack your chest to their back and hit it. Love it, a lot.

Nice! I can easily see this becoming one of my top 3 or 4 finishes.

 

[Loop Chokes]

I hit this the other day, and I'm loving it. I normally get the ezekiel from the back, and this just added another option from there... Will play with this more.
It's funny though. I was watching a video on MBOnline and Rafa was showing the arm triangle with a figure 4 grip... and I immediately thought to myself, "wow Ryan Hall specifically says not to use the figure 4 grip.. I can't believe they have such different approaches to the arm triangle."... and then he does the chair sit to the back and finishes it like the nogi ezekiel. Does this crank the neck slightly though? Rafael says it does, and my partner said it did, but I know Ryan Hall is against cranking the neck if possible. So I'm just wondering if I'm missing out on something.

 

[Vitamin C]

Since getting the DVD, this has been what I have finished with the most, though I've been using the sleeve grip.

It can be very useful if they are really defending that arm coming around and under the neck. It is easier to get just the hand through, as it seems less threatening. And in the gi, even if they don't want to let your hand though, you can typically 'crawl' your hand up the collar grip like in any collar choke. Once I get it far enough through, I use my chest to roll them to their side and lock up the sleeve ezekiel grip.

 

[Drew Foster]

I hit this the other day, and I'm loving it. I normally get the ezekiel from the back, and this just added another option from there... Will play with this more.
It's funny though. I was watching a video on MBOnline and Rafa was showing the arm triangle with a figure 4 grip... and I immediately thought to myself, "wow Ryan Hall specifically says not to use the figure 4 grip.. I can't believe they have such different approaches to the arm triangle."... and then he does the chair sit to the back and finishes it like the nogi ezekiel. Does this crank the neck slightly though? Rafael says it does, and my partner said it did, but I know Ryan Hall is against cranking the neck if possible. So I'm just wondering if I'm missing out on something.

I specifically noticed this video on MBros too, and it's cool that someone else caught it. Yes, this does slightly crank the neck.

It's just a difference in training philosophy. I was able to do some no-gi with Rafa one-on-one and he was pretty open about preffering chokes that hurt, and not really caring if there's a cranking action involved. Now, obviously he's Jedi level technical, and wouldn't just crank someone's neck, but he specifically showed variations of the anaconda, darce/brabo, and arm triangle that all had some type of action in there that caused it to "hurt" more on top of cutting off the blood.

Even a RNC variation he showed didn't really crank the neck, but it definitely hurt way more than a typical, isometric squeezing type of RNC.

I would always like to be able to choke with no crank, and then if I want to, be able to make it meaner. But I wouldn't want to make it hurt at the expense of the choke. And although Rafa in the video was talking about cranking their neck too, I wouldn't say he's sacrificing any technique to do so. It's just a bit different.

Hope that helps...

 

[Loop Chokes]

I specifically noticed this video on MBros too, and it's cool that someone else caught it. Yes, this does slightly crank the neck.

It's just a difference in training philosophy. I was able to do some no-gi with Rafa one-on-one and he was pretty open about preffering chokes that hurt, and not really caring if there's a cranking action involved. Now, obviously he's Jedi level technical, and wouldn't just crank someone's neck, but he specifically showed variations of the anaconda, darce/brabo, and arm triangle that all had some type of action in there that caused it to "hurt" more on top of cutting off the blood.

Even a RNC variation he showed didn't really crank the neck, but it definitely hurt way more than a typical, isometric squeezing type of RNC.

I would always like to be able to choke with no crank, and then if I want to, be able to make it meaner. But I wouldn't want to make it hurt at the expense of the choke. And although Rafa in the video was talking about cranking their neck too, I wouldn't say he's sacrificing any technique to do so. It's just a bit different.

Hope that helps...

I wish I could train with Rafa! But yeah I get what you mean, I don't mind cranking the neck(slightly) if it chokes as well, but I don't want to just crank and not get any choke at all.
I'm gonna for this move alot more tonight.

 

[Knock Out Ned]

My buddy was showing me this a few weeks ago. I think it's awesome. I'm going to start playing around with it more.

 

[Shemhazai]

I'm sure 'cranky' chokes are a nice way to make people tap faster in competition, but I personally prefer a clean blood choke. With the shoulder-drop finish that Ryan teaches for the no gi Ezekiel and brabo chokes, most people tap very quickly anyway, as the choking leverage is ridiculous.

 

[headmanbjj]

I love Ryan Hall's dvds. Arm-triangles and Back attacks are definitely helping me get to the next level.

Does anyone know what gi Seph is wearing in the Arm-Triangle dvd?