Ryan Hall fried my brain

PointyShinyBurn said:
While it is true that gravity is on the side of the top player, you're not free of inherent advantages from your guard either. Your mobility is lower because you're pointing all four of your limbs at your opponent, including the two much, much stronger ones. He has to use his legs at least partly to maintain his base and mobility.
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This is a valid point, IMO. I also read a quote from Pedro Sauer saying that while the top guy can only ever exert power equivalent to his body weight, the bottom guy has the ability to push off of the ground to exert (probably) even more power. Obviously the top guy has the advantage when it comes to conservation of energy, as the bottom guy has to use more strength, but still, I think it's one of several points that go to show that the "all things being equal, top guy has the advantage" argument is a bit too simple.

This being said, I obviously do agree that everybody should strive to get on top and pass the guard (or take the back if available) in order to have the best shot at finishing the fight.
 
Does anyone know when Ryan's HG and attacking the back sets are coming out?

/offtopic.
 
I think I heard around Christmas.
 
Perfect. I had been hoping one of Ryan, The Mendes Brothers or Cobrinha put out a taking the back dvd.
 
A lot of people are playing guard at the larger competitions. I guess they see it as a way to sweep and get on top rather than submit from there. I believe it takes less energy and is a safer game plan to sweep someone from guard than it is from standing.

It seems that only the really really heavy guys won't pull guard.

Im a guard guy but I would prefer bjj competitions change the rules to encourage takedowns/throws and top position.
 
MUFC said:
Perfect. I had been hoping one of Ryan, The Mendes Brothers or Cobrinha put out a taking the back dvd.
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I want a Rafa Mendes DVD on the Anaconda choke... Hell he can throw some Darce stuff in there too. Let's go!
 
redaxe said:
Exactly. The fact that the top position has a "mechanical advantage" due to gravity, means that you should practice your guard and get even better at it in case you do find yourself on the bottom and need a way of getting to the top.

To interpret Ryan's ideas to mean that the guard should be de-emphasized in BJJ training, would be completely missing the point.
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If everyone constantly fought to be on top, then the guard would inevitably be getting constantly worked because only one person can be on top. People would start to develop their own guard techniques to help them get on top.

So if every BJJ school started emphasizing being on top as the #1 most important thing, I actually think the guard would evolve a lot.
 
DiscipleOfPog said:
If everyone constantly fought to be on top, then the guard would inevitably be getting constantly worked because only one person can be on top. People would start to develop their own guard techniques to help them get on top.

So if every BJJ school started emphasizing being on top as the #1 most important thing, I actually think the guard would evolve a lot.
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Kind of. In BJJ, yes. Only one person can be on top, but the guy on bottom doesn't have to be in guard. There are plenty of other grappling arts that only utilize the guard minimally or not at all, and the guy on bottom is usually working for a reversal from his knees.

They have the guard in Judo for example, but in Judo you don't really have enough time to work on sweeps. You pretty much either go for an armbar or triangle, or you hold your opponent in your closed guard to force a referee standup.

BJJ is really the only grappling art that teaches the guard as being the most preferable position to be in when you are on the bottom, and actually focuses on developing the use of the guard for sweeping and getting to top position. The only reason BJJ guys are able to use the guard effectively to sweep and achieve top position is because we spend so much time on our backs, practicing our sweeps.

But if BJJ schools suddenly started emphasizing top position as the most important thing, then I think you'd see a lot more use of the turtle position and wrestling scramble techniques to get to the top. It would look a lot more like Judo newaza.

Besides, nothing that's been said in this thread changes the fact that the primary objective of a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu match is to win by submission hold. That is the #1 most important thing and it does not matter whether it comes from top position or the guard.
 
Shemhazai said:
This is a valid point, IMO. I also read a quote from Pedro Sauer saying that while the top guy can only ever exert power equivalent to his body weight, the bottom guy has the ability to push off of the ground to exert (probably) even more power. Obviously the top guy has the advantage when it comes to conservation of energy, as the bottom guy has to use more strength, but still, I think it's one of several points that go to show that the "all things being equal, top guy has the advantage" argument is a bit too simple.
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I remember that quote also. There was a thread about it awhile back. That ideal did not seem to catch on in this forum like the Ryan Hall quote. I agree that the "all things being equal, top guy has the advantage" argument is too simplistic, but it seems a majority are embracing this concept as fact.
 
redaxe said:
Besides, nothing that's been said in this thread changes the fact that the primary objective of a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu match is to win by submission hold. That is the #1 most important thing and it does not matter whether it comes from top position or the guard.
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True for sure.
 
WRT Ryan's DVDs, Paul Viele said that they should be out mid november.
 
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