Opinion "Russia-gate" Retrospective

[andnowweknow]

Hillary LEGITIMATELY lost to Trump and she has to live with it and stop making excuses, just like Trump LEGITIMATELY lost to Biden and needs to STFU with the "election steal" bullshit.

Not even in the same realm really, but sort of the same thing. Saying the two complaints are just like each other is ridiculous...one complaint is a COMPLETE FABRICATION.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Leftist boomers still buying into 4chan hoaxes in 2021, damn.

What's the 4chan hoax?

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

What's the 4chan hoax?

Who do you think fed Christopher Steele the bullshit story about golden showers in Russian hotel rooms.

 

[Yehudim]

What's the 4chan hoax?

As foxnewsfan pointed out, the story about Trump being blackmailed by Russia with videos of Russian hookers peeing on him is a 100% certified 4chan hoax, which is what started much of the belief that he was Russia affiliated.

The rest is pure elite capture by people who surrounded him (and Trump accepted because he loves a yes-man) and this is what the Mueller Report revealed.

I don't see why people have to hold on to fantasies about Trump when he's done so many terrible things, we don't have to make up stuff about him.

 

[ShadowRun]

As foxnewsfan pointed out, the story about Trump being blackmailed by Russia with videos of Russian hookers peeing on him is a 100% certified 4chan hoax, which is what started much of the belief that he was Russia affiliated.

The rest is pure elite capture by people who surrounded him (and Trump accepted because he loves a yes-man) and this is what the Mueller Report revealed.

I don't see why people have to hold on to fantasies about Trump when he's done so many terrible things, we don't have to make up stuff about him.

Funny how that was reported everywhere but Biden's laptop right before the election was blocked and censored...

 

[ShadowRun]

It showed at minimum how corrupt the system is and honestly hopeless. By all means the Mueller report basically said Trump is guilty but we cant prove it, that Trump has too many connections and ties to be coincidence with these people and actors that there has to be something to it. The fact that Trump never actually carried out sanctions and had a favorable foreign policy for them is more proof. Trump fans like to say Trump sanctioned a pipeline and did more than anything against Russia but as a wonderful WAPO article explained (which I made a thread on) Trump had the Treasury department never enforce sanctions even ones that Congress passed, so for 4 years Russia and all areas or people sanctioned were not sanctioned. Let us also not forget Mcconnell helped Trump end sanctions on key industries and Mcconnell got election help and funding from Steel Oligarchs and Ketucky was paying $$ for steel from some Oligarch. I think the only sanction Trump ever enforced was against Nordstream 2 in particular the German financiers for the pipeline which also hurt Germany.. and was never going to stop the pipeline anyways which is why Biden smartly took sanctions off in 2021 of like March because it just is hopeless and we dont have a right to force the Germans our supposed allies to buy our gas when they can get cheaper gas from Russia

He signed the sanctions too late for the NORD pipe...

"President Trump is tougher on Russia in 18 months than Obama in eight years
Even though the left-wing media will never give him credit, President Trump has been far tougher on Russia than his predecessor, Barack Obama.

For starters, it was President Obama who, according to Reuters, was “caught on camera” saying to a Russian leader that he’ll have more flexibility after the election — not President Trump.


The fact is, President Trump has been quite tough on Russia.



So much so, the sanctions resemble a Russian nesting doll: one sanction of top of another, on top of another.

Just last April, the Trump administration imposed new sanctions on Russia — including strict sanctions on seven of Russia’s richest individuals and 17 top government officials for their interference in our elections.

The sanctions directly penalized President Vladimir Putin’s inner circle by prohibiting them from traveling to the United States ever again. He did this by opening a bank account in the West, preventing them from doing business with the West and prohibiting anyone else to do business on their behalf.

The sanctions were significant — among the toughest sanctions ever placed on individuals in a foreign country, with the exception of perhaps Iran and North Korea. Yet like many of Trump’s successes, it received minimal mainstream media coverage.

During his first month in office in January 2017, President Trump upheld strict sanctions to punish Russia for its unlawful 2014 annexation of Crimea. With those sanctions, the Trump administration punished more than three dozen individuals and organizations that were behind the invasion of Ukraine.

Even Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin had a hand in the actions, stating that there would be no easing of the sanctions until Russia meets its obligations under the 2015 Minsk agreement — the ceasefire agreement between Russia and Ukraine.

In August 2017, Trump signed a bill slapping even more sanctions on Russia — this time specifically aimed at the country’s energy and defense industries. Congress made the legislation Trump-proof, meaning that no executive order could ever undo such sanctions; yet Trump signed it anyway.

In fact it was Trump — not Obama — who ordered the closure of Russian diplomatic properties in San Francisco, Washington, D.C., and New York City that appeared to be a threat to American security.

It was also President Trump who shuttered the Russian consulate in Seattle.

To be sure, Obama kicked 35 Russian diplomats out of the country after suspected election meddling by Russia, but only after Trump won the 2016 election. It is questionable whether he would have done so had Hillary Clinton succeeded in being the victor.

Furthermore, it was President Trump who led the world in expelling Russian diplomats after the Russian government was suspected of carrying out a nerve agent attack in the United Kingdom against one of their former spies. President Trump moved swiftly to expel 60 Russian diplomats from U.S. soil, and other countries followed suit by expelling dozens as well.

In addition to stringent sanctions, President Trump has also called out Russia publicly.

During a landmark speech last year in Poland, Trump lambasted Russia for using oil to hold NATO’s Eastern European countries hostage. Trump underscored the dangers of those countries’ dependence on Russian oil deliveries to keep their people warm during the winter, leading to their inability to criticize Russia the rest of the year.

The Trump administration even offered to help identify alternative energy sources for the region. Trump’s remarks on European soil was the energy industry equivalent of Reagan’s “tear down that wall” speech.

Compare all of the above actions to Obama’s milquetoast policy on Russia and outright appeasement on issues such as the “red line” that Russia blew right past in Syria. Obama’s lackluster track record with Russia is in stark contrast to the Trump administration that has already, in its first 18 months, surpassed what Obama did over a total of eight years.

Jen Kerns has served as a GOP strategist and writer for the U.S. presidential debates for FOX News. She previously served as communications director and spokeswoman for the California Republican Party, the Colorado recalls over gun control, and the Prop. 8 battle over marriage which went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court."
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-h...er-on-russia-in-18-months-than-obama-in-eight

 

[Oceanmachine]

He signed the sanctions too late for the NORD pipe...

"President Trump is tougher on Russia in 18 months than Obama in eight years
Even though the left-wing media will never give him credit, President Trump has been far tougher on Russia than his predecessor, Barack Obama.

For starters, it was President Obama who, according to Reuters, was “caught on camera” saying to a Russian leader that he’ll have more flexibility after the election — not President Trump.


The fact is, President Trump has been quite tough on Russia.



So much so, the sanctions resemble a Russian nesting doll: one sanction of top of another, on top of another.

Just last April, the Trump administration imposed new sanctions on Russia — including strict sanctions on seven of Russia’s richest individuals and 17 top government officials for their interference in our elections.

The sanctions directly penalized President Vladimir Putin’s inner circle by prohibiting them from traveling to the United States ever again. He did this by opening a bank account in the West, preventing them from doing business with the West and prohibiting anyone else to do business on their behalf.

The sanctions were significant — among the toughest sanctions ever placed on individuals in a foreign country, with the exception of perhaps Iran and North Korea. Yet like many of Trump’s successes, it received minimal mainstream media coverage.

During his first month in office in January 2017, President Trump upheld strict sanctions to punish Russia for its unlawful 2014 annexation of Crimea. With those sanctions, the Trump administration punished more than three dozen individuals and organizations that were behind the invasion of Ukraine.

Even Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin had a hand in the actions, stating that there would be no easing of the sanctions until Russia meets its obligations under the 2015 Minsk agreement — the ceasefire agreement between Russia and Ukraine.

In August 2017, Trump signed a bill slapping even more sanctions on Russia — this time specifically aimed at the country’s energy and defense industries. Congress made the legislation Trump-proof, meaning that no executive order could ever undo such sanctions; yet Trump signed it anyway.

In fact it was Trump — not Obama — who ordered the closure of Russian diplomatic properties in San Francisco, Washington, D.C., and New York City that appeared to be a threat to American security.

It was also President Trump who shuttered the Russian consulate in Seattle.

To be sure, Obama kicked 35 Russian diplomats out of the country after suspected election meddling by Russia, but only after Trump won the 2016 election. It is questionable whether he would have done so had Hillary Clinton succeeded in being the victor.

Furthermore, it was President Trump who led the world in expelling Russian diplomats after the Russian government was suspected of carrying out a nerve agent attack in the United Kingdom against one of their former spies. President Trump moved swiftly to expel 60 Russian diplomats from U.S. soil, and other countries followed suit by expelling dozens as well.

In addition to stringent sanctions, President Trump has also called out Russia publicly.

During a landmark speech last year in Poland, Trump lambasted Russia for using oil to hold NATO’s Eastern European countries hostage. Trump underscored the dangers of those countries’ dependence on Russian oil deliveries to keep their people warm during the winter, leading to their inability to criticize Russia the rest of the year.

The Trump administration even offered to help identify alternative energy sources for the region. Trump’s remarks on European soil was the energy industry equivalent of Reagan’s “tear down that wall” speech.

Compare all of the above actions to Obama’s milquetoast policy on Russia and outright appeasement on issues such as the “red line” that Russia blew right past in Syria. Obama’s lackluster track record with Russia is in stark contrast to the Trump administration that has already, in its first 18 months, surpassed what Obama did over a total of eight years.

Jen Kerns has served as a GOP strategist and writer for the U.S. presidential debates for FOX News. She previously served as communications director and spokeswoman for the California Republican Party, the Colorado recalls over gun control, and the Prop. 8 battle over marriage which went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court."
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-h...er-on-russia-in-18-months-than-obama-in-eight

That Article is from July of 2018 genius and doesnt disprove what I said. Trump DID NOT enforce most of the laws or sanctions and got several removed oe delayed for years or months implementation until Congress was impeaching him then he still watered them down....


Look at this article from October of 2020 which sources the Treasury department, and US House of representatives

The House investigated and the Treasury department admitted they have not enforced sanctions

Here look at the article from Outline.com to het past the pay wall



Here are some quotes also backed up by Trump himself and his former NSA advisors....


"""
Immediately upon entering the White House, Trump tried to lift Obama-era sanctions and return diplomatic compounds seized by the United States due to interference in the 2016 election. Months later, Congress drew up a bill to strengthen Russia sanctions and prevent Trump from lifting them. The administration lobbied hard against the legislation. When it passed with a veto-proof majority, Trump issued a statement expressing displeasure — and signaling that enforcement would be lax.

His administration has done exactly that. It delayed implementing the law and missed key deadlines, grudgingly conceding only after intervention by congressional leaders. Nervous tycoons scrambled to hire Washington lobbyists to keep themselves off a blacklist mandated by the law. But the Trump team made a mockery of the effort by merely copying and pasting from a Forbes list of Russian billionaires. That reassured the Kremlin that the sanctions would never be used as intended.

Trump’s most egregious act of sanctions malfeasance, however, came in April 2018. That was when the Treasury Department — acting with support from then-national security adviser H.R. McMaster, on his way out of the White House — imposed the first consequential Russia sanctions of the Trump years, targeting the oligarch Oleg Deripaska and his aluminum company, Rusal. The impact was swift: Rusal’s shares nosedived by more than 50 percent.""

""
Instead of using this leverage to extract concessions from Moscow, the Trump administration immediately defanged the sanctions and eventually expunged Rusal from the sanctions list. To make matters worse, the Trump administration cut a deal with Deripaska, whom the Senate Intelligence Committee described as a “proxy for the Russian state and intelligence services,” allowing him to maintain control of his businesses through allies. This episode sent an unambiguous message to both Moscow and the private sector: The Trump administration had no stomach for tough sanctions against Russia.

Meanwhile, the administration dragged its feet on imposing consequences for the nerve agent attack on Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia. It delayed chemical weapons sanctions required by law, only moving forward after formal requests and demands from bipartisan congressional leaders. Unsurprisingly, when the Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was recently poisoned with a similar agent, the Trump administration said — and did — nothing.

Ahead of the 2018 midterms, bipartisan legislation to deter Moscow from interfering in future U.S. elections gained momentum in the Senate. Trump cut it off at the pass, signing an executive order mimicking its language but lacking the critical piece: automatic sanctions against Russian banks and energy companies if the Kremlin’s attacks on American democracy persisted. It was this executive order that the Treasury Department used in September.
"""



Here is how he removed some key sanctions previoualy enforced


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/17/house-rebukes-trump-russia-sanctions-1108939

 

[ShadowRun]

That Article is from July of 2018 genius and doesnt disprove what I said. Trump DID NOT enforce most of the laws or sanctions and got several removed oe delayed for years or months implementation until Congress was impeaching him then he still watered them down....


Look at this article from October of 2020 which sources the Treasury department, and US House of representatives

The House investigated and the Treasury department admitted they have not enforced sanctions

Here look at the article from Outline.com to het past the pay wall



Here are some quotes also backed up by Trump himself and his former NSA advisors....


"""
Immediately upon entering the White House, Trump tried to lift Obama-era sanctions and return diplomatic compounds seized by the United States due to interference in the 2016 election. Months later, Congress drew up a bill to strengthen Russia sanctions and prevent Trump from lifting them. The administration lobbied hard against the legislation. When it passed with a veto-proof majority, Trump issued a statement expressing displeasure — and signaling that enforcement would be lax.

His administration has done exactly that. It delayed implementing the law and missed key deadlines, grudgingly conceding only after intervention by congressional leaders. Nervous tycoons scrambled to hire Washington lobbyists to keep themselves off a blacklist mandated by the law. But the Trump team made a mockery of the effort by merely copying and pasting from a Forbes list of Russian billionaires. That reassured the Kremlin that the sanctions would never be used as intended.

Trump’s most egregious act of sanctions malfeasance, however, came in April 2018. That was when the Treasury Department — acting with support from then-national security adviser H.R. McMaster, on his way out of the White House — imposed the first consequential Russia sanctions of the Trump years, targeting the oligarch Oleg Deripaska and his aluminum company, Rusal. The impact was swift: Rusal’s shares nosedived by more than 50 percent.""

""
Instead of using this leverage to extract concessions from Moscow, the Trump administration immediately defanged the sanctions and eventually expunged Rusal from the sanctions list. To make matters worse, the Trump administration cut a deal with Deripaska, whom the Senate Intelligence Committee described as a “proxy for the Russian state and intelligence services,” allowing him to maintain control of his businesses through allies. This episode sent an unambiguous message to both Moscow and the private sector: The Trump administration had no stomach for tough sanctions against Russia.

Meanwhile, the administration dragged its feet on imposing consequences for the nerve agent attack on Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia. It delayed chemical weapons sanctions required by law, only moving forward after formal requests and demands from bipartisan congressional leaders. Unsurprisingly, when the Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was recently poisoned with a similar agent, the Trump administration said — and did — nothing.

Ahead of the 2018 midterms, bipartisan legislation to deter Moscow from interfering in future U.S. elections gained momentum in the Senate. Trump cut it off at the pass, signing an executive order mimicking its language but lacking the critical piece: automatic sanctions against Russian banks and energy companies if the Kremlin’s attacks on American democracy persisted. It was this executive order that the Treasury Department used in September.
"""



Here is how he removed some key sanctions previoualy enforced


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/17/house-rebukes-trump-russia-sanctions-1108939

It showed at minimum how corrupt the system is and honestly hopeless. By all means the Mueller report basically said Trump is guilty but we cant prove it, that Trump has too many connections and ties to be coincidence with these people and actors that there has to be something to it. The fact that Trump never actually carried out sanctions and had a favorable foreign policy for them is more proof. Trump fans like to say Trump sanctioned a pipeline and did more than anything against Russia but as a wonderful WAPO article explained (which I made a thread on) Trump had the Treasury department never enforce sanctions even ones that Congress passed, so for 4 years Russia and all areas or people sanctioned were not sanctioned. Let us also not forget Mcconnell helped Trump end sanctions on key industries and Mcconnell got election help and funding from Steel Oligarchs and Ketucky was paying $$ for steel from some Oligarch. I think the only sanction Trump ever enforced was against Nordstream 2 in particular the German financiers for the pipeline which also hurt Germany.. and was never going to stop the pipeline anyways which is why Biden smartly took sanctions off in 2021 of like March because it just is hopeless and we dont have a right to force the Germans our supposed allies to buy our gas when they can get cheaper gas from Russia

I was just correcting your "Trump never actually carried out sanctions" .

 

[bobgeese]

Liberals, the people that freak out that Trump, who builds hotels, wanted to build a hotel in Russia.

Yet they completely ignore the fbi falsifying evidence, the Democrats purchasing Russian propaganda, feeding knowingly false evidence to the fbi. The fbi using the evidence the knew was false. Multiple spies, lies, and worst of all Democrats embraced violence against their political opponents.


A morally bankrupt party cloaked in a false pursuit of "justice".

 

[Jack V Savage]

As foxnewsfan pointed out, the story about Trump being blackmailed by Russia with videos of Russian hookers peeing on him is a 100% certified 4chan hoax, which is what started much of the belief that he was Russia affiliated.

This is wrong on all counts. Some trolls tried to claim that they were the source of the pee tape thing, but that was false (and implausible anyway), and that wasn't what started the belief that he was affiliated with Russia (the fact that he was closely affiliated with Russia is well-established and goes back to before his political career). Also not a big part of the info. Remember, Steele was looking for leads, not making conclusions. And then, of course, the big thing was Russia illegally hacking private communications and then disseminating the results in a way designed to help Trump. There's no world in which that's not a huge scandal for anyone. Trump in a way is protected by the huge number of scandals (meaning no single one gets much media focus) and by really open corruption (as the media loves uncovering stuff and doesn't care as much about stuff that isn't hidden).

The rest is pure elite capture by people who surrounded him (and Trump accepted because he loves a yes-man) and this is what the Mueller Report revealed.

Not sure what you mean here. The Mueller report showed that Trump was trying to obstruct the investigation, and there were some highly troubling connections.

I don't see why people have to hold on to fantasies about Trump when he's done so many terrible things, we don't have to make up stuff about him.

If you're talking specifically about the pee tape, people just think it's funny. But the overall Russia stuff would have sunk any previous president. I agree that he did a lot more that was worthy of condemnation (and note that neither of his impeachments were related to Russia, though an impeachment and removal certainly would have been appropriate just on that basis).

 

[Jack V Savage]

Liberals, the people that freak out that Trump, who builds hotels, wanted to build a hotel in Russia.

Yet they completely ignore the fbi falsifying evidence, the Democrats purchasing Russian propaganda, feeding knowingly false evidence to the fbi. The fbi using the evidence the knew was false. Multiple spies, lies, and worst of all Democrats embraced violence against their political opponents.

A morally bankrupt party cloaked in a false pursuit of "justice".

Very dishonest to say that people were freaking out about Trump wanting to build a hotel in Russia. He was seeking an opportunity with a nine-figure payout and minimal risk that required help from the Russian gov't. Working with a mob figure, and he lied and had his people lie about the effort (which gave Russia even more leverage over him). Plus, it's consistent with the kind of deal that Russia makes with foreign allies.

The stuff you claim is "ignored" is false, of course.

 

[bobgeese]

Very dishonest to say that people were freaking out about Trump wanting to build a hotel in Russia. He was seeking an opportunity with a nine-figure payout and minimal risk that required help from the Russian gov't. Working with a mob figure, and he lied and had his people lie about the effort (which gave Russia even more leverage over him). Plus, it's consistent with the kind of deal that Russia makes with foreign allies.

The stuff you claim is "ignored" is false, of course.

Jack, who is Stephen Halper?


Why was he in contact with members of the Trump campaign before Papadapolous's conversation with Downer was ever relayed back to US authorities?




I look forward to you not answering the questions because you're woefully ignorant of the facts and don't want to further embarrass yourself.


Furthermore, nice inflation rate ya got there.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Jack, who is Stephen Halper?


Why was he in contact with members of the Trump campaign before Papadapolous's conversation with Downer was ever relayed back to US authorities?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Halper

Answers your first question and also gets into the idiotic theories about him.

I look forward to you not answering the questions because you're woefully ignorant of the facts and don't want to further embarrass yourself.

Isn't this projection? You either ignorantly or willfully misrepresented the concerns people had about the Moscow tower Trump was pursuing, and then when I pointed that out, you just repeated a dumb CT and ignored it....

Furthermore, nice inflation rate ya got there.

... and tried to change the subject, which is always a tell of someone who knows he's saying stuff that isn't true.

 

[bobgeese]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Halper

Answers your first question and also gets into the idiotic theories about him.



Isn't this projection? You either ignorantly or willfully misrepresented the concerns people had about the Moscow tower Trump was pursuing, and then when I pointed that out, you just repeated a dumb CT and ignored it....



... and tried to change the subject, which is always a tell of someone who knows he's saying stuff that isn't true.

Ah yes, the infallible Wikipedia source...






Try the NYT, this isn't even the first time he got caught spying on a presidential campaign.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/07/07/...peration-to-gather-inside-data-on-carter.html




PS, not changing the subject, just making fun of you because you were wrong.

 

[Oceanmachine]

I was just correcting your "Trump never actually carried out sanctions" .

Fair point but you realize he hardly did actually execute any and when he did it was due to veto proof majorities and then he delayed them and watered them down. Then he legit removed some and or didnt even implement others

 

[Jack V Savage]

Ah yes, the infallible Wikipedia source...

Links to the NYT, WaPo, and Chicago Tribune, among others.

Try the NYT, this isn't even the first time he got caught spying on a presidential campaign.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/07/07/...peration-to-gather-inside-data-on-carter.html

Wrong link? Also, Trump falsely alleging he was spying on his campaign isn't him "being caught" if we're being honest. The fact that you A) dodged the point and B) are spreading obvious lies says a lot about your own perception about the strength of your position. And why would anyone want to lie to defend a corrupt politician? You don't get anything when Trump gets away with stuff like that, you know.

PS, not changing the subject, just making fun of you because you were wrong.

Well, yes, that's what changing the subject is. Also, I gave confidence intervals, and I made a bet, which I'm going to win and which was based on my confidence intervals. Hard to say I was "wrong" in any significant way given that. No shame in getting things wrong anyway as long as you update your thinking as a result. I'm guessing you were wrong in the sense that you agreed with the person who bet against me. What did you learn?

 

[bobgeese]

Links to the NYT, WaPo, and Chicago Tribune, among others.



Wrong link?

No, that's the first time he got caught spying on a presidential campaign. I'm just refreshing your memory since you refuse to answer who he is. He's the guy who got caught twice.


Furthermore, don't argue with me about spying, argue with NBC


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...letting-fbi-spy-ex-trump-aide-carter-n1121406

 

[BFoe]

^^^ This aged badly.

Why, did your ridiculous Spygate conspiracy finally amount to something? It hasn’t? Then it seems like my posts aged just fine.

 

[ElKarlo]

Funny how that was reported everywhere but Biden's laptop right before the election was blocked and censored...

Yep. This was believed as true and the media tried its best to discredit Trump over 4chan nonsense
Also agree that Trump also sanctioned Russia harder than Obama. By far

 

[HOLA]

Liberals, the people that freak out that Trump, who builds hotels, wanted to build a hotel in Russia.

If it was no big deal, why then did Trump repeatedly feel the need to lie about it? Eh? Why did he have Cohen lie to the congress about it? Which Cohen eventually plead guilty to, stating he did it to be consistent with Trump's political message?

Trump said he had no dealings with Russia when in fact he was simultaneously pursuing the white house and business venture, Trump Tower Moscow, in Russia. Trump Tower Moscow could only proceed if the government of Russia, which was becoming adversarial with us after Obama's "reset" failed, gave the project the green light. Obviously, Trump's not going to ruffle Putin's feathers. Just replace "Trump" with "Clinton" or "Biden" into the story and see how you feel about it.