running does not

You are equating the fact that because numerous fighters ran distance and still were in shape that therefore running LSD is good for the specific task of fighting. That's like saying that because the majority of smokers die of diseases other than pulminary that smoking isn't a major cause of death.

Instead of numerous, say "all" and youll be closer to the truth.

:rolleyes: at your smoking analogy
 
Marathon winners run a 4:50 mile pace for 26 miles so even if they ran a 6 min pace it is LSD. The pace that allows someone to run six miles almost daily is going to be in the 70% MHR at best.

You are equating the fact that because numerous fighters ran distance and still were in shape that therefore running LSD is good for the specific task of fighting. That's like saying that because the majority of smokers die of diseases other than pulminary that smoking isn't a major cause of death.

but all they do is run........I don't see where you're going with that I'm afraid.


Saying 'numerous fighters ran distance and still were in shape' is a bit of a oxymoron isn't it?
 
I'm talking about being efficient.

I'm glad all thses great fighters didn't walk off a bridge...
 
I'm talking about being efficient.

6 miles x 7 minutes per = 42 Minutes. Thats not exactly time-consuming, especially for pro fighters who only have to, like, train.

If you look at the training routine of 95% or more boxers, it looks like this:

Early AM: Road work - Mostly LSD runs, hills, cross country, etc

Come back, eat breakfast, go for a walk or take a nap

Early afternoon: Skill and sparring for 2 - 2:30 hours

3-4 hours of training a day for a guy who only has to train is pretty damn efficient. Sorry, youre not going to convince me that a couple burpees are going to produce the same resuts just because its "efficient."


I'm glad all thses great fighters didn't walk off a bridge...

Supposed to be good for your cardio...
 
your stupidity makes me cry
 
Ok, so, reading all things here I have a quick question:

If you are running to promote Lean Muscle growth and increasing stamina, which methodology is best?

I've read the FAQ and have been running 30 minutes 3xweek, 1 hour 2xweek either using Tread, Stair Climber, i.e. trying to keep things mixed up.

My goal as someone who is trying to get into the game on an amateur level, it's confusing at times :)

Goal is to loose 20 more pounds without loosing to much mass.

Crazy Asian
 
Nice cheapshot Alan but crying's for babies.

You guys go run, I'll do what works for me

As you should. You had mentioned you were going to get a MT fight by the way. How many rounds will it be for? How many rounds are you currently sparring at a time?
 
You guys go run, I'll do what works for me

that's fine, just don't assume LSD running is completely useless for the comat athlete.

Open your mind. Duuuuuuuude
 
i think leaving anything out of your training is a loss. if you only run long distance your missing out on explosive power/speed. if you only run sprints your not pushing your heart and lungs far enough compared to what you would need to maintain stamina in a fight. really you should do a mix of it all. people tend to bash long runs simply because they hate it. it's easier to say it's no good and make a cop out to convince yourself. in the end if you leave it out you will probably still achieve decent cardio. just dont plan on competing on a top calibur level. most pro fighter in mma/boxing run long distances as part of theyre training. im sure if they diddent need this they would stop doing 5 or 6 mile runs and replace it with more sprints.
 
Long distance running also teaches you to breath properly. Through the stomach and not the chest. It also builds up endurance in your legs.

To say it is foolish, is foolish. As EVERYONE else has been saying, never go without an ingredient if you don't have to.
 
Just some food for thought.


Low cardio shows a preference for using FFA's for fuel rather than glucose. High intensity exercise OTOH is heavily dependent on glucose.




Also
by Tom McCullough MEd., MSS
"What happens when the intensity of the exercise is increased ->70& VO2 max-? Sure the oxidation rate of FFA increased but lactate production also increases. Lactate decreases the FFA mobilization rate and increases FFA reesterification rate. Carbohydrates then become an increasingly important source of fuel. However, during prolonged sub maximal exercise blood lactate levels are very low, thus not affecting FFA mobilization significantly. Thus, carbohydrates are used much less as a fuel and oxidated fats become the most abundant source of energy"



Bottom line is keep the workouts to less then or equal to 45% VO2 Max for the best fat burning results that wont destroy muscle mass.








Balance of carbohydrate and lipid utilization during exercise: the "crossover" concept

G. A. Brooks and J. Mercier
Department of Human Biodynamics, University of California, Berkeley 94720.

The "crossover" concept represents a theoretical means by which one can understand the effects of exercise intensity and prior endurance training on the balance of carbohydrate (CHO) and lipid ****bolism during sustained exercise. According to the crossover concept, endurance training results in muscular biochemical adaptations that enhance lipid oxidation as well as decrease the sympathetic nervous system responses to given submaximal exercise stresses. These adaptations promote lipid oxidation during mild- to moderate-intensity exercise. In contrast, increases in exercise intensity are conceived to increase contraction-induced muscle glycogenolysis, alter the pattern of fiber type recruitment, and increase sympathetic nervous system activity. Therefore the pattern of substrate utilization in an individual at any point in time depends on the interaction between exercise intensity-induced responses (which increase CHO utilization) and endurance training-induced responses (which promote lipid oxidation). The crossover point is the power output at which energy from CHO-derived fuels predominates over energy from lipids, with further increases in power eliciting a relative increment in CHO utilization and a decrement in lipid oxidation. The contemporary literature contains data indicating that, after endurance training, exercise at low intensities (< or = 45% maximal O2 uptake) is accomplished with lipid as the main substrate. In contrast, the literature also contains reports that are interpreted to indicate that during hard-intensity exercise (approximately 75% maximal O2 uptake) CHO is the predominant substrate. Seen within the context of the crossover concept these apparently divergent results are, in fact, consistent.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)




Fatty acid oxidation is directly regulated by carbohydrate ****bolism during exercise
E. F. Coyle, A. E. Jeukendrup, A. J. Wagenmakers and W. H. Saris
Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

We determined whether increased glycolytic flux from hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia directly reduces fatty acid oxidation during exercise. Fatty acid oxidation rates were measured during constant-rate intravenous infusion of trace amounts of a long-chain fatty acid ([1-13C]palmitate; Pal) vs. a medium-chain fatty acid ([1-13C]octanoate; Oct). Six endurance-trained men cycled for 40 min at 50% of maximal O2 uptake 1) after an overnight fast ("fasting") and 2) after ingestion of 1.4 g/kg of glucose at 60 min and again 10 min before exercise (Glc). Glc caused hyperinsulinemia, a preexercise blood glucose of 6 mM, and a 34% reduction in total fat oxidation during exercise due to an approximately equal reduction in oxidation of plasma-free fatty acids (FFA) and intramuscular triglycerides (all P < 0.05). Oxidation of Pal was significantly reduced during Glc compared with fast (i.e., 70.0 +/- 4.1 vs. 86.0 +/- 1.9% of tracer infusion rate; P < 0.05). However, Glc had no effect on Oct oxidation, which is apparently not limited by mitochondrial transport. Furthermore, Glc reduced plasma FFA appearance 36% (P < 0.05), indicating a coordination of effects on adipose tissue and muscle. In summary, substrate oxidation during exercise can be regulated by increased glycolytic flux that is accompanied by a direct inhibition of long-chain fatty acid oxidation. These observations indicate that carbohydrate availability can directly regulate fat oxidation during exercise.






Carry on
 
Anyone who doesn't run (or swim, or bike) and has good cardio is genetically gifted. Anyone who doesn't run and has questionable cardio is an idiot.

That's all there is to it.
 
Goddammit, not this again.

Fighters have incorporated running into their training for years. That's a fact. If you don't want to run, then don't run.
 
I run because I want to be able to chase a bastard down if I need to. That applies both in and out of the ring.

Footwork can get tiring on the legs - especially when I'm constantly shifting weight and cutting angles while trying to quickly get into position to throw using proper body mechanics. Using the jump rope and watching miles of concrete pass behind me during a run makes things a little bit easier. For me at least.
 
For the record here is my stance and if anyone read all my posts they were made clear:

I don't hate on LSD, what I said was it is not the most effeicient way to train for the specific task of fighting. I didn't pull out all the scientific papers as such as I was at work but guys like Ross and Alwyn have all that on their web sites which I refered too. I weigh 250lbs. and running six miles a day is not going to end in anything good. I hill run, sprint, and push my prowler sled to train for the relavant task of all out effort and short back off periods. My fights will not go anywhere near 45 mins and and if they did I would simply adjust my workouts to reflect that work capacity.

Just because a bunch of guys in the past did someothing that doesn't make that gospel and believing that w/o the scientific proof is having a "closed mind".

Kimmerly started this thread saying he found LSD to be the least effective for him in his conditioning. I agreed. Not being able to accept that people don't have, or can't do, what has "allwasys been done" and yet still succeed is having a closed mind to say the least. No one here has any idea about what my conditioning level is other than what i say it is. It is good and for being basically out of season it's as almost as good as it was in season when I played football, I do good on the challenges here.

Lastly I have tried the LSD thing running and on the elpitical rider. I've been there, done that, and got told by doctor to knock that shit off along with the tee shirt. Ross style conditioning is what is working for me, just as promised.
 
Fucking hell, I'd be running LSD at least once a week cardio benefits or not. It's one of the most enjoyable and relaxing activities in my life. And there's something psychologically comforting in knowing that you've got the ability to travel several miles at speed using just your legs.

To me a good LSD run is like a reward. Some down a six pack to unwind, I go run for 2 hours. In this respect, it's a much loved hobby that happens to be of great benefit to my training. A nice thing to have.
 
Fucking hell, I'd be running LSD at least once a week cardio benefits or not. It's one of the most enjoyable and relaxing activities in my life. And there's something psychologically comforting in knowing that you've got the ability to travel several miles at speed using just your legs.

agreed

To me a good LSD run is like a reward. Some down a six pack to unwind, I go run for 2 hours. In this respect, it's a much loved hobby that happens to be of great benefit to my training. A nice thing to have.


Freak :icon_chee

I say that but once a sunday for a while I put on a audio book or a audio blog and go for a run. A hour seems to pass quite quickly
 
Just because a bunch of guys in the past did someothing that doesn't make that gospel and believing that w/o the scientific proof is having a "closed mind".

No, sorry, being subject to allowing oneself to be convinced of something minus evidence and precedence is not "closed-mindedness" it's gullibility, there's a difference.

And it's not "a bunch of guys from the past"...it's the vast majority of current Fighters (specifically successful ones), among other Athletes of various Sports across the entire Globe. They run in South America, they run in Canada, they run in Europe a damn sight more than we do here, they run ridiculous amounts in Africa, they run in Asia, and I'm talking specifically about Combat Athletes.

There could be exceptions to the rules, but exceptions hardly negate existences of rules. You don't change a World perspective by boasting open-mindedness and stating a couple of references to individuals who the mold doesn't apply to. That's just now how it works.
 
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