Running and bjj

[Babic88**]

and on the flip side of the coin

many athletes come into the gym who can run for hours, but can't roll for ten minutes

they're night and day differences.

stick with running and you'll develop more endurance in that area
the same goes for grappling

Thats because the go 100% first 5 minutes...

After year or so, you learn to adapt, and you can roll longer then you having sex...

(i hope that means 30 minutes )

 

[Rod1]

Okay, rolling is not strictly anaerobic, but it is not aerobic at all. It's far too unpredictable. It cannot be compared to long, steady, unchanging motion like running. Tell me I'm wrong there, go on.

You are wrong.

How is something not strictly anaerobic but not aerobic "at all" is there a third choice?

Aerobic capacity will lower the increase of lactate and allow for a faster recovery, its a combination of 2.

Again, if rolling was not "aerobic at all" you would be able to roll without breathing or your breathing patterns wouldn't change.

-The muscles work anaerobically, using anaerobic glycoglysis to make up for the lack of sufficient oxygen.

-Lactate is removed at a certain rate and metabolized back into the usable pyruvate by well oxygenated muscle cells.

What does it means?

It means that a high VO2 max can benefit the anaerobic lactic metabolism in 2 ways.

1.- The higher the VO2 max, the more oxygen present in the blood, there is a lower demand for the muscle to go into anaerobic metabolism.

2.- The higher the VO2 the more well oxygenated muscle cells with the ability to recycle lactate are present.

So in the end its directly related to rolling cardio, but its not the only thing that its relevant.

As people have mentioned before, the best way to train is

1.- Fartlek interval training

2.- Running at 100% for a set amount of time, in this case the duration of a match and resting the minimal amount between matches. This to increase AnT.

Pacing is bad when training for grappling, when you run for a set amount of time or distance like 1500, you should be outrighjt sprinting the moment you start and basically be dead when you finish, trying to be around 200+ heartbeat rate.

 

[genkisudo69]

well i run a couple of times x week and helps.
sometimes i do sprints and is great.
also weight lifting and yoga helps.
i have a decent cardio, but have a geat cardio is dificult.
i don

 

[NextPrez]

It sounds like TS's purpose for running is just to lose some extra weight though

Have you ever seen a fat sprinter? Marathon runners consistently have a higher body fat % than sprinters. There is a lot of research that suggests that sprinting is better for fat loss than steady state cardio.

 

[franco66]

i also have trouble running but can roll and spar all day long. My lungs feel fucked when i run?

 

[DevinTheDewd]

Yea... i dont know if youve seen any Kenyans doing the Boston Marathon but they aren't exactly fat. In any case, the reason for differing body types is that your body needs energy reserves to continue at that 5 minute mile marathon pace.

There shouldnt be any debate about whether or not running will help your BJJ. It WILL help your BJJ without question. It's called cross training and if you look at nearly any olympic athlete... from swimming to boxing- they all have running incorporated into their weekly workout schedule. Now, if you have some pre-existing problems with your feet/knees/hips or whatever, then you ought to replace running with another form of cardio like stair stepper or swimming.

 

[Rod1]

Have you ever seen a fat sprinter? Marathon runners consistently have a higher body fat % than sprinters. There is a lot of research that suggests that sprinting is better for fat loss than steady state cardio.

Marathon runners have very low fat percentages, they jut don't pack a load of muscle like sprinters, the reason is that marathon runners are efficiency runners, a lot of muscle would weight them down, they also develop Type I muscles which are more efficient at oxygen consumption. Its not because marathon running does not burns fat, they eat in the excess of 5kcal a day just to keep on with training.

Steady running still trumps over anything for weight loss for the simple reason that its not hard on the body, sprinting does burns more fat per volume of training, but you can't keep up for long, try doing fartlek for 13 miles, you would die or be so tired you wouldn't be able to compliment your workout with BJJ, weights and other physically demanding activities. On the other hand one can jog/run for 13 miles and be fresh after a good shower to do something else.

 

[NextPrez]

Marathon runners have very low fat percentages, they jut don't pack a load of muscle like sprinters, the reason is that marathon runners are efficiency runners, a lot of muscle would weight them down, they also develop Type I muscles which are more efficient at oxygen consumption. Its not because marathon running does not burns fat, they eat in the excess of 5kcal a day just to keep on with training.

Steady running still trumps over anything for weight loss for the simple reason that its not hard on the body, sprinting does burns more fat per volume of training, but you can't keep up for long, try doing fartlek for 13 miles, you would die or be so tired you wouldn't be able to compliment your workout with BJJ, weights and other physically demanding activities. On the other hand one can jog/run for 13 miles and be fresh after a good shower to do something else.

Lets break down your first paragraph. 1. Yes, marathon runners have a low body fat percentage, but not compared to sprinters. There is both empirical evidence to support this or you can just visually compare the two groups 2. Yeah, we get it a marathon runners doesn

 

[NextPrez]

Also the marathonists and cyclists getting tired is either

1.- Lack of technique forcing them to use too much strength.

2.- Localized muscle tiredness, mainly soreness of the arms, but nothing close to gassing.

You are wrong about this too. They get tired b/c they are working an energy system that they aren't used to working. Your suggesting that the demand of a marathon are the same demands of a BJJ match/practice. That's just not true.
Did you not even read the article you posted? It says this "In comparison, Olympic judo is a dynamic, physically demanding sport, requiring a high level of physical conditioning and strength in order to be successful and offset fatigue. Many authorities characterize sport judo as an explosive power sport, requiring tremendous reserves of anaerobic power and capacity, yet operating within a well developed aerobic system (Callister et al., 1991; NCCP, 1990; Sharp et al, 1987; Thomas et. al, 1989; Takahashi, 1992). Judo is characteristic of short duration, high intensity, intermittent exercise lasting a total match period of five minutes for males and four minutes for females. Therefore, it is primarily an anaerobic sport, consisting of all out bursts of activity ranging from a mean time of approximately 10 to 30 seconds of work to 10 to 15 seconds of rest (NCCP, 1990)." On the scale of Olympic powerlifting being the most anaerobic and distance running being aerobic. BJJ is about 70% anaerobic 30% aerobic.

 

[Rod1]

Lets break down your first paragraph. 1. Yes, marathon runners have a low body fat percentage, but not compared to sprinters. There is both empirical evidence to support this or you can just visually compare the two groups

OR we could you know bring actual SCIENTIFIC evidence that you are wrong.

events such as the 100, 200, and 400 meters in athletes (male 100 and 200 meters, 6.5

 

[Rod1]

You are wrong about this too. They get tired b/c they are working an energy system that they aren't used to working. Your suggesting that the demand of a marathon are the same demands of a BJJ match/practice. That's just not true.

I never suggested anything like that i directly specified.

Increase in VO2 max directly benefits grappling BUT its not the only thing needed.

Did you not even read the article you posted?

Yes, i did. You are obviously trolling now as there is a whole subtopic about aerobic requirements, its subtopic c)

On the scale of Olympic powerlifting being the most anaerobic and distance running being aerobic. BJJ is about 70% anaerobic 30% aerobic.

Again this is completely wrong, you can't say that something is 50% anaerobic and 50% aerobic, BECAUSE THE ANAEROBIC SYSTEM WORKS IN CONJUCTION WITH THE AEROBIC SYSTEM.

THEY WORK TOGETHER.

Also on the article i pointed.

Re-read it where it says that Judokas and wrestlers have a very high VO2 max.

Your childish notion of aerobic and anaerobic, belongs to the realm of complete ignorance and lack of common sense. Common sense should tell you that if you run out of air and gas is because your body is in desesperate need of oxygen and the washing out of CO2.

Also this doesn't means that judo is strictly aerobic.

The anaerobic lactic works in direct conjuction with the VO2 max capacity of the body, they are strictly correlated and they need BOTH to be improved.

 

[JRT6]

Rod,
You're mostly right and have a command of the subject matter but you're wrong on a couple of minor points (that have been discussed here to death already). You should check out EZA's sticky or get his book b/c since I added his HICT training my aerobic and lactate base has improved significantly.

Also for for the fellow using the Judo example, you're correct but BJJ tends to be much slower paced than the frantic newaza pace of Judo.

 

[boisefireman]

I have been doing bjj for two years now. On rolling nights we go a solid hour with no breaks and I can go the whole time without getting gassed out completely. I

 

[boisefireman]

My Mad Methods Unconventional Fitness, Exercises and Workouts - The Running Conspiracy

 

[Rod1]

Rod,
You're mostly right and have a command of the subject matter but you're wrong on a couple of minor points (that have been discussed here to death already). You should check out EZA's sticky or get his book b/c since I added his HICT training my aerobic and lactate base has improved significantly.

Also for for the fellow using the Judo example, you're correct but BJJ tends to be much slower paced than the frantic newaza pace of Judo.

Which points? i don't claim to be an expert here, im just educated on the matter. I don't know what HICT means, its probably the name for an already proven method i may know with another name.

What im saying is that there is no "better" way of running, long distance running has little impact on grappling outside the off-season preparatory phase, which is basically increasing the aerobic capacity so that further training is possible, i did many types of running through a competition season and they all had their purpose.

If you could illustrate to me what HICT is i would be glad.

 

[Rod1]

Two things. Exercise does not equal weight lose. The old calories in/calories out is been proven time and time again to be false. Diet is everything. Get sugar out of your eating.

When was that proven wrong? caloric deficit = weight loss, caloric surplus = weight gain.

Of course if you are eating empty calories you will get sick so sugars should be out, but calories in calories out still stands.

two. Exercises don't transfer over very well. running makes you a good runner. Rolling makes you a good roller. Cardio exercises doesn't equal each other. Each maybe good in their own right but being good at one does transfer over.

This is wrong, a lot of completemtary exercises translate pretty well into training, if rolling was the only way to get better at rolling olympic athletes would do nothing but spar and spar and that its not the case.

Weightlifting and track training its present in most olympic sports

 

[boisefireman]

When was that proven wrong? caloric deficit = weight loss, caloric surplus = weight gain.

Of course if you are eating empty calories you will get sick so sugars should be out, but calories in calories out still stands.



This is wrong, a lot of completemtary exercises translate pretty well into training, if rolling was the only way to get better at rolling olympic athletes would do nothing but spar and spar and that its not the case.

Weightlifting and track training its present in most olympic sports

it is not wrong. I said very well. Cross training is good but strong cardio in one thing doesn't translate to strong in another. Even road bike riders that are world class are not world class in Mountain biking.

 

[JRT6]

If you could illustrate to me what HICT is i would be glad.

aah like I said if you read EZA's sticky... never mind I shouldn't have said anything.

 

[Rod1]

it is not wrong. I said very well. Cross training is good but strong cardio in one thing doesn't translate to strong in another. Even road bike riders that are world class are not world class in Mountain biking.

Again, why does it has to be black and white for you guys? they translate and very well, but they are only an aspect of a whole.

If what you said was true then olympic athletes would never go and hit the weights or the road, they would simply stay doing their sport over and over, and this is certainly not the case.

Plyos, interval training, circuit training, speed training, rapidity training, weightlifting etc etc they are parts of what makes a true athlete. Just look at the most amazing athletes in sports, and they certainly not only do spar and spar, they have complete and scientific training regimes that involve doing a lot of things.

 

[Rod1]

aah like I said if you read EZA's sticky... never mind I shouldn't have said anything.

EZA sticky is 781 posts long and the original topic doesn't specifies any routine or anything. Sorry if i don't have the free time to read every single post looking for what you are specifying.