Rubber Guard: Troubleshooting

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by ckm, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. ckm

    ckm Green Belt

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    Hey guys, I have been trying to play some rubber guard recently, but am having a couple problems. The main issue I have is that when I am in mission control it is hard for me to prevent my opponent from passing my right leg (the one with the foot on his hip). I own MTRG dvd and book, and I know Eddie has said that if your rubber guard is getting passed alot it is usually because of a lack of squeezing pressure with the knees/legs. I am sure this is part of it, but even when I squeeze really tightly, I have trouble preventing my opponent from breaking through by either sprawling their left leg back, which reduces the pressure my foot has on their hip, then maneuvering with their left elbow/hand to break my right leg down and step over, or simply by pushing down with their left elbow or hand on my right leg in order to step over and get me into half guard.

    I have seen eddie's technique called the "Carni", which is basically an omoplata from the chill dog position while in half guard, and sometimes I can still pull this off when they trap me in half guard. However, I am not quite flexible to get this all the time, and i would like to be able to prevent them from trapping me in half guard every time i am in rubber guard.

    I have also been experimenting with hooking my right foot over their lower back when they sprawl their leg back or try really hard to break my right leg's pressure. This seems to help a bit, keeping them from being able to break through. However, I have never seen eddie mention this as a possible defense to being passed in Mission control.

    Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read all this, and thanks in advance for any suggestions.
    :D
     
  2. Lion Killer

    Lion Killer White Belt

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    When they sprawl back you're going to need to move your foot to their back temporarily if they're reaching for it. or if they do that immediately bring your foot up and go for The Pump into an armbar. Or if you see they're trying to get rid of that foot on the hip go to MeatHook to hold down your rubberguard while you defend their passing attempts and threaten them with a potential triangle.

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Have you tried the gas pedal sweep?

    When your opponent sprawls his left leg back, you follow it with your right leg and push his knee forward like you are stepping on a gas pedal. At the same time you should trap his left arm and raise YOUR left shoulder to the side you are sweeping too.

    If he adjusts you can switch to butterfly guard, which should be easy because he should be really off balanced.

    If he stops moving you can reset closed guard and start working the rubber guard again.

    The sprawl is the rubber guard killer, but it makes your opponent move which sets up awesome sweeps. I dont think people should even attempt rubber guard until they have a basic understanding of the butterfly guard (or a basic understanding of a lot of things. :icon_chee )
     
  4. ckm

    ckm Green Belt

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    yeah, I have tried the foot on the lower back thing, it seems to help a bit.. I am fairly good at getting the meathook also... my pump is not very good yet though... i need to keep it all tighter.

    thanks for the advice.
     
  5. ckm

    ckm Green Belt

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    thats an interesting idea. thanks for that! question: where should my left foot/leg be when doing this sweep? should i just leave it on their back?
     
  6. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Relax it and keep it on their hip. That way if the sweep is done well you land directly in mount and if you miss it you just have to shrimp out a little to make it a butterfly hook.
     
  7. MonkeyNuts!

    MonkeyNuts! Rear Naked Poker

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    I don't usually move the foot to the hip when I use rubber guard, most of the time I keep it on their back where it was when I had full guard.

    In addition to the squeezing, I find that keeping the leg there on the back also allows me to dig that heel down too, which helps with the control. IIRC moving the foot to the hip is to keep the opponent's hips back, but I normally don't meet much stacking when I use RG. Probably because I don't even mess with Mission Control, usually just go straight into New York if opponent puts a hand to the mat, so I end up with enough control early on to hopefully cut off any stacking.
     
  8. ckm

    ckm Green Belt

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    I see, thats kind of the feeling i was getting from the minor success I was getting with the "hip foot" on the low back. It just seems strange that eddie bravo would not mention using such a technique in his book if it was a legitimate RG position.
     
  9. ckm

    ckm Green Belt

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    any other suggestions? I have been working on the gas pedal sweep, but it seems rather low percentage... they seem to be able to base out and prevent the sweep fairly easily. I still seem to be having more success with just hooking the right leg over the back rather than keeping the foot on the hip, which is supposed to be the "correct" technique according to eddie.
     
  10. jiujitzurero

    jiujitzurero White Belt

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    if he sprawls out with his left leg and you have new york you can look for a meathook to triangle or even better put that leg up and go for the invisible collar.

    ive always found the stack and him pushing my hip foot down more annoying.
     
  11. green_machine

    green_machine Orange Belt

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    I don't play rubber guard, but I am pretty familiar with the system, so I'll do my best to explain what I think.

    If you're only in mission control, your body is most likely parallel or straight on with him. If you're body is in a line with his like this and your leg is getting passed, then your problem is either not being tight enough or your leg is too low. Keep that leg high on his back and tight. It's when he can reach back with his hand and push the leg down that it sounds like your problem is...if your leg is high on his back and tight it should be difficult for him to even push it down unless he wedges his elbow in.

    If you're in the New York or Chill Dog position, then you're probably at somewhat of an angle to him and it will be hard to keep that opposite leg as tight as before. If your leg is getting passed here then like somebody else said you can use Eddie's "Carni." Or for another option you can use the position you're as a setup for what Marcelo calls the Monoplata: bring your rubber-guarded foot down to the mat in front of his face and then turn your body away from him so your butt is kind of pointing at his head and you're looking away from him. Then fall over his body onto your butt, which should flip him over onto his back in the process. Now turn your knee in slowly to torque the shoulder. Be careful though when you try this because it's easy to lose your balance and crank the guys arm or shoulder too far. Sorry if that is a confusing explanation, but Marcelo teaches the Monoplata as a way to counter someone holding your other leg when you're attempting an omoplata, and that's basically the position you're in from what I gather.
     
  12. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    Make sure you're on your side when you do the rubber guard, like this:

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X2PVa0dzKQQ&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X2PVa0dzKQQ&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

    Not being on your side makes it hard for you to finish anything and makes it easier to get passed.
     
  13. jiujitzurero

    jiujitzurero White Belt

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    ^
    nice vid, more stable triangle than the one eddie shows with the arm out imho
     
  14. 004

    004 White Belt

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    drill the carni. learned it at an eddie bravo seminar and love it.
     
  15. ckm

    ckm Green Belt

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    Interesting. It looks to me (in the video at least) like it would be easier to pass the hip foot in that position... but i'll take your word for it and try it out.
     
  16. whipyourasstyle

    whipyourasstyle Exitus acta probat

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    fucking eddie and his crazy names . . .

    You forgot to stabilize and control first in the flying hash haze atomic zig zag bong position!!!!

    Good luck with all that, I don't play rubber guard, Yeah I'm just a rubber guard hater 'cause I don't have rubber bands for knee tendons.
     
  17. civrosado

    civrosado White Belt

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    Yea onlyproblem with the vid is the dude isn't hugging his knee at all. Thats a pretty fundamental part so that just killed the vid for me
     
  18. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Red Belt

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    I think he is demonstrating the meathook to triangle transition. the meathook has the arm that was hugging the knee moved up and around the ankle..
     

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