Roy Jones and the 1988 Olympics...??

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by LEWIS540, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. LEWIS540

    LEWIS540 .

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    21,139
    Likes Received:
    24,614
    Location:
    Sofia
    From what I understand, all the judges who scored the bout against RJJ have admitted that they made a mistake and were bribed.

    Should / will RJJ ever get the decision overturned?

    This has been described as the biggest scandal in Olympic history, so surely the decision should have been overturned?
     
  2. juji gatame**

    juji gatame** Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,704
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Selkirk, Manitoba
    I don't see why they haven't overturned it already.
     
  3. Coster

    Coster Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    893
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    London
    It should've been but probably will never be...
     
  4. The Fan Man

    The Fan Man Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's the fight, it's an absolute robbery, but pretty par for the course as far as Olympic scandals go.

     
  5. Carey

    Carey Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    38
    Still the worst decision I have ever seen.
     
  6. SPOOKHOLIDAE

    SPOOKHOLIDAE Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles...lurking from SPOOKTOWN since 05'
    Embarassing for the South Koreans, atleast the South Korean boxer did the right thing and put the gold medal around RJJ's neck, he caught alot of flak from koreans for doin that saying he disrespected their authority. Travesty
     
  7. Sharkey

    Sharkey Who finishes 3rd?

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Messages:
    14,654
    Likes Received:
    7,427
    What goes around comes around.

    Sure, give Roy the gold medal he rightfully deserved. While we're at it, have the four or five American boxers give back their gold medals that they did not deserve from the previous Olympics. In fact, pass one of those to the South Korean gold medal favourite who was victimized by a bad hometown decision to Jerry Page in L.A., which was the direct precursor to what happened to Roy four years later.
     
  8. Tobacco

    Tobacco --------------------------------------------------

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    12,524
    Likes Received:
    7,046
    Oh Sharkey, shame on you for letting facts get in the way of the typical feel good story of robberies only mattering when one of our fighters get the short end of the stick. When a foreign fighter gets jobbed, that's not important. Let's sweep it under the rug and bury our heads in the sand.
     
  9. Sharkey

    Sharkey Who finishes 3rd?

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Messages:
    14,654
    Likes Received:
    7,427
    I can't help myself, my friend. The decisions the Americans were "gifted" in '84 have been swept under the rung for long enough, and I've tried to pull them them back out over the last few years. Especially when I see comments from guys like this Spook character about what an embarrassment it was for the South Koreans and what a travesty it was. It was bad, don't get me wrong. But it reeks of a whole lot of hypocrisy when the Americans did the exact same thing to the Koreans the previous Olympics, and were also the ones to fire the first bullet in all that went down back then between the two boxing nations. Are we to ignore all that even though the horrible decision Jerry Page received over Kim Dong Kil in '84 played such a pivotal part as the thing that ignited that whole mess? I suppose there's plenty on this side of the pond that would like to have it that way.

    Spook should check out the archives of his own hometown paper, the L.A. Times, Aug 14th, 1984, where they gave out a bunch of "awards" for various going-ons from the boxing events during those Games. Jerry Page's win was honoured with;

    "Worst Decision: Page's 4-1 win over Kim Dong Kil in the quarterfinals."

    At least there was one person from L.A. that knew what was up. But really, the L.A Times writer was far from the only one;

    "The South Koreans were particularily incensed when Jerry Page, the U.S light welterweight who went on to win a gold medal, was given a 4-1 quarterfinal decision over Kim Dong Kil, though it was clear to all in attendance that Kim had fought well enough to win."

    - Sports Illustrated, Aug 20th, 1984

    That writer knew what was up too, as did "all in attendance" who loudly boo'd the decision even though it went to a hometown fighter. Plenty of other American writers knew what was up too, but just a couple of quick quotes. And remember these are written from an American perspective. Besides them immediately threatening to take their fighters out of the boxing competition right after Page got the undeserved decision and some later threatening comments about what they "learned" from that verdict (and an earlier one involving Paul Gonzalez, which was not too bad...more complaints about the 5-0 scoring), who really knows what the Koreans think of that fight all these years later. On this side of the pond, Roy being victimized is brought up a lot. But what about the Koreans? During the recent Beijing Games, a British writer by the name of Neil Clark alluded to what the Koreans may still think after all these years;

    "To this day, South Koreans are still mystified as to how their boxer Kim Dong-Kil was adjudged to have lost 4-1 on points to America's Jerry Page at the Los Angeles Olympics, despite having outclassed his opponent."

    Kim Dong Kil wins the 1st round against Jerry Page in a clear enough manner with some room to spare. The 2nd is an even pick 'em round with both having equal arguments to winning it (or scored even). The 3rd round sees the Korean bouncing punches of Page and dominating throughout, including hurting him on a couple of occasions, in what was a clear two point round under the amateur scoring system at the time.

    Kim Dong Kil wins the fight clearly to anybody with two eyes. At the next Olympics, Roy Jones does the same and wins clearly to anybody with two eyes...One is called an "embarrassment", a "travesty" and whatever else. The other one is what? Swept aside even if it did play such a huge factor with the other more famous one?

    Understanding one is understanding the other. Forever are the two fights linked.
     
  10. JerseyRob

    JerseyRob Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,266
    Likes Received:
    49
    I remember Lampley asking why RJJ wouldn't go to Europe and fight Dariusz Michalczewski back in the day and he said after being robbed in Korea he would never do that and I can't blame him. By the way RJJ was number 1 PFP then but Lampley still asked the question as if Roy was crazy not to.
     
  11. LEWIS540

    LEWIS540 .

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    21,139
    Likes Received:
    24,614
    Location:
    Sofia
    I never heard about that- good man.

    Just shows how the media can dictate what we think.
     
  12. pittelp

    pittelp Smokin Joe belt winner

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    10,866
    Likes Received:
    4
    I think it's out of the question now, but he wasn't the 1st, the Olympics always had someone that got robbed from having a fair decision.
     
  13. Sharkey

    Sharkey Who finishes 3rd?

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Messages:
    14,654
    Likes Received:
    7,427
    I'm not sure if it's ever brought up in England at all anymore, Lewis, but you're from a country that had one of your fighters victimized by one of the worst decision in modern Olympic boxing history. Alan Minter vs Dieter Kottysch, 1972 in Munich. Might have even been worse than Roy's if only considering the margin of victory, as Minter appeared to have won all three rounds clearly enough and even scored a knockdown or two along the way. The fight may have gotten over shadowed by another event at those Games that was certainly much more unfortunate. But the verdict handed out in that bout was outright horrendous.

    Coincidence only, but Minter himself advanced earlier in the tournament over another fighter who benefited greatly from a horrible decision at those '72 Games. Valery Tregubov, who received a blantant gift over another American light middleweight with the last name Jones and first initial being R. Reggie Jones.

    Not exactly sure where I got the primary source of this, but here's a writeup I've had scribbled down for a few years and apparently taken from an article written Sept 11th, 1972;


    "None of these blatant exercises in bias remotely compare with the decision rendered against U.S. Light Middleweight Boxer Reginald Jones, 21, in favor of Valery Tregubov. 25, of the Soviet Union. The opening round could plausibly have been a standoff, with the more experienced Russian consistently dancing out of trouble. In the second round, Jones rocked Tregubov several times and opened a nasty cut over his right eye. In the third, Jones nearly sent Tregubov to the canvas three times; the Russian was unable to punch back and lasted until the final bell strictly on guts and savvy.

    The boxers joined the referee in mid-ring, Jones dancing in the glow of apparent triumph, Tregubov glumly anticipating defeat. Suddenly the referee raised the Russian's right hand, signaling victory. The crowd sat stunned for a moment, then nearly blew the top off the arena, whistling (the European version of booing), firing debris into the ring and crying "Schande! Schande! Schande!" (Shame! Shame! Shame!)

    That was it. Judges from Liberia and Malaysia had picked Jones as the victor while a Yugoslav had Tregubov winning. The Dutch and Nigerian officials scored the fight a draw; but preferences must be registered under Olympic rules, and both inexplicably preferred Tregubov, purportedly because of his "aggressiveness". The incident led the boxing association to take a harder look at the Munich decisions. Two days later, one boxing judge was dismissed and 16 were warned. By week's end six boxing officials had been dropped. That, of course, did little to console the bewildered Jones, who swore he would never fight again."


    At the bottom of this paper I'm looking at, I have it scribbled down that the fans had shouted their displeasure and thrown things for upwards of 10 minutes after the decision was announced.

    Kottysch over Minter and Tregubov over Reggie Jones...two of the worst decision in modern Olympic boxing history. Maybe next time someone feels sorry for Roy, think about all the millions he made in the pro ranks. Not nearly the same for Reggie Jones, who had a rather mediocre pro career and made very modest money. With the way he himself got screwed over after giving his very best effort during his one shot at the Olympics, maybe he's a little more deserving of our sympathy nowadays.
     
  14. Sharkey

    Sharkey Who finishes 3rd?

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Messages:
    14,654
    Likes Received:
    7,427
    Sergei Sivko's decision over Kiyoshi Tanabe in the flyweight division semi-finals from the 1960 Olympics.

    Jochen Bachfeld's decision over Pedro Gamarro in the welterweight gold medal bout from the 1976 Olympics.

    Not too many people know about them, but two more decisions that were about as bad as any seen in the 80's or later.
     
  15. LEWIS540

    LEWIS540 .

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    21,139
    Likes Received:
    24,614
    Location:
    Sofia
    Agian, not heard about this- thanks.

    Am I right in assuming you prefer the new scoring system at the olympics? Personally I prefer tho old system more (just with compotent/ non-corrupt officiating).
     
  16. SPOOKHOLIDAE

    SPOOKHOLIDAE Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles...lurking from SPOOKTOWN since 05'
    Honestly, I did not know about what happened in 84, I was just commenting on what happened in 88 because of how much attention it received...excuse my ignorace, but i have nothing against South Koreans...I myself was born in Seoul, haha.
     
  17. Sharkey

    Sharkey Who finishes 3rd?

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Messages:
    14,654
    Likes Received:
    7,427
    Nah, I'm not a fan of this current scoring system. I watched the boxing in this past Olympics in Beijaing for the first time in a long ass time, and I ended up having to cover up the score on my monitor just because it became an annoyance. Not a fan of having the fighters know the score either, as it tends to cause them to avoid their opponents if they have already knowingly built up a sizable point lead. Takes the suspense out of the decision.

    But, even though fans bitched about the use of it and how points weren't being scored (or vice versa), I thought it worked okay for the bottom line of picking the correct winners in the vast majority of the fights. Only really saw one fight out of the ones I did watch that had a decision that left me scratching my head...Beterbiev vs Zhang (had to look it up). Even then that decision wasn't nearly as bad as ones I've seen in the past. A few other questionable decisions in Beijing, but nothing outrageous. Thought those ones were close and an argument could be made for the actual call.

    But yeah, I'm like you. If they could get rid of the corruption that went along with the old 20-point must system then I'd prefer that.

    Also, and I posted about this in the past (most recently apx a month ago...will link at bottom), the system we see now was first discussed immediately after the 1984 Games by the AIBA president at the time, Col. Don Hull, and the announcement of the system already being in place had been made before Roy entered the ring in for the gold medal bout Seoul. Anwar Chowdhry announced the new system to the media a few days before that bout, in fact. i.e. Roy's final bout had nothing to do with the new system as is so often told.


    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f53/c...floyd-vs-pac-1223856/index4.html#post38949228
     
  18. vjvj

    vjvj Mr. Pibb + Red Vines = Crazy Delicious

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,733
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thanks for all that background info, Sharkey. Very interesting stuff, and that's probably why they don't want to re-open Jones' case; it'll just open a floodgate of other controversial decisions to investigate.
     
  19. Sharkey

    Sharkey Who finishes 3rd?

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Messages:
    14,654
    Likes Received:
    7,427
    Cheers bud.
     
  20. brackis1

    brackis1 Gold Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    16,146
    Likes Received:
    2,257
    Location:
    Boston, Chicago, Bay Area
    I'd just like to point out that it's insane that someone who competed in an Olympic sport in the 1980s could still today be competitive and/or win such an event 20 years later.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.